Seems to me she’s drinking the gender Kool-Aid, in spite of attempts to reduce gender bias.

I hiighly recommend you get your hands on a copy of “The Girls are the Ones With the Pointy Nails”. http://tinyurl.com/3tjbm6n
It’s all about the (somewhat informal) study conducted by an elementary school teacher, mostly through interviews with school age children about what makes boys and girls different, and what things they like, etc. I found it interesting, anyway.

She might change her mind after spending an afternoon at our house. Our heritage is Scottish, so my five year old son regularly hightails it around the neighborhood in a kilt, usually with his face painted blue. Our neighbors down the street and their eight year old son love medieval renactments, and are always out and about in kilts, too. Boys definitely wear skirts on this street.

I think your daughter’s assessment sounds pretty right on.

Bravo, K. Annie.
Jessica: why do you assume that your kids just “like what they like” and that cultural pressures have no effect on them? It’s not like there’s a whole advertising industry trying to pressure kids, or segregated toy and clothing sections, or anything. If these things were “natural,” then they wouldn’t need to be so regimented.

Our boys are not getting the same messages as our girls, they don’t get to “have it all”. YET It is still the girls though who every one worries don’t get enough of the right messages. My little princess son wants his nails painted and to wear high heels, but you would think by the reactions I get from other parents that I am letting him play with firecrackers instead of shoes. No one would blink an eye if I was encouraging my tom boy girl to be who she is.
More needs to be done for our sons, but no one is ready to even talk about it.
Bet you a $1000 bucks the “genderless baby” is a girl. Only a girl would inspire this kind of drastic mesure, thier older son never had a moment of being genderless, I seriously doupt thier second son could have caused them to turn into these extreme activists.

“My little princess son wants his nails painted and to wear high heels, but you would think by the reactions I get from other parents that I am letting him play with firecrackers instead of shoes.” Do you think this might be because wearing high heels and nail polish are frivolous and silly? I don’t even encourage this sort of thing in my *daughter*…I wouldn’t have a problem with a little boy wanting to play with dolls, cooking toys, being a “nurturer” in play or any of those other things that are associated (wrongly? for better or for worse?) with females. I wouldn’t have a problem with a smaller boy toddler going into a closet and exploring shoes (I don’t happen to have any high heels, personally as they are torture mechanisms meant to jack up women’s asses while making them vulnerable and making walking difficult) and when playing dress up wearing whatever, but at the same time, I wouldn’t push it or encourage it. I have a daughter and we don’t do much “dress up.” I sometimes get the impression that it’s certain kinds of women who push this stuff onto their sons. I don’t think boys need to be tough sports grunts or one of the characters from the Village People, but I do think children are malleable to some extent, so why encourage or push boys to be princesses (or girls for that matter) when there are so many cooler, more interesting things to be.

K. Annie, I do think it’s the parents job, and an important one, to teach their own children their values in this area, and that it’s NOT the job of “the media” (what is meant here? news outlets? the advertising industry? that’s not clear, but I do know their “job” is not to teach my child) and it’s not the job of the school. The job/purpose of the school is to teach academics (and to a much lesser extent to reinforce generically collegial social skills) and to maintain a level of discipline and respect so that kids can learn, so the only role there would be to insist children who happen to be different are not bullied. It is also the parents job to teach their children to be strong and firm in who they are and the parents job to accept them, of course. This is one reason why I think daycare for infants/toddlers/preschoolers is so detrimental. Children are thrown into the institutional fray before they even have a chance to become who they are. This is why I am raising my own child in the key 0-5 years and will send her off to school with a strong sense of identity.

It’s not a rant, it’s a legitimate link in the conversation. If this sort of thing is so important, and a child’s individuality is so critical, shouldn’t we be doing all we can to protect and foster it. We know that many aspects of personality are set in the earliest years. We know how critical these years are. Or maybe you think this is “the state’s” responsibility? Seem like too important of a thing to leave to the state. Suddenly, you have nothing to say? I’ve dared to criticize the feminist holy grail of daycare!

There’s no “evidence” one way or another. As we all know most of the social/soft sciences have highly interpretable results. Frankly, I don’t need a study to tell me that an infant belong close to its own mother most of the day and night if at all possible and that toddlers and preschoolers are not psychologically and emotionally developed enough to comfortably deal with being “on” all day. Let’s face it, when you have to interact with groups not in your own home where you can let it all hang out, you are “on.” Of course, many kids muddle through and do fine, but is it good for them? And at what cost does it come? My point in bringing that up here was in response to the arguments being made that society has to change to accommodate those who are “different” or to be more flexible with gender roles because very young, impressionable children are being fed this stuff. Well, if you don’t want your young, impressionable children fed this stuff, wouldn’t it make sense to keep them longer in your own controlled environments where you could instill in them your own values and instill in them a strength of character and individuality? Maybe not. Many feminists tend to want to have something to kvetch about and harangue others to change instead of just doing their job—mothering—themselves.

Anyway, sorry to run the thread in this direction. Carolyn’s daughter sounds like she’s got a good head on her shoulders!

I tried the interview.

Me: Do you think there are any differences between boys and girls?
Her: I’m writing my name!
Me: Very nice, but what are the differences between boys and girls?
Her: I’m making a note for grama.
Me: Oh, I think she will like that very much. Now, can you tell me what you think the difference between boys and girls is?
Husband, laughing: Homey don’t play that!
Then, I let it go. She just doesn’t care.

I know this won’t be popular, but it doesn’t seem like a lot of you are very well versed in basic child development. Five year olds are known for making black and white statements because they are just learning how to categorize and to use that skill to try to determine how they fit in to the larger picture. It’s not an age known for subtlety. Personally, I’m tired of all this inane trend toward the genderless. I think it puts more focus on gender, rather than less. Better we teach our children to be kind and accepting of others regardless of their sexual preferences, gender issues (for those who really have them), or genders and teach them that every person has the right to explore their varied interests and become a fully realized human being.

This whole genderless trend bothers me because it often implies gender is bad ant seems to assume gender is a social construct which contradicts basic biology. Yes some girls like trucks and some boys like dolls but teaching them that liking “boys toys” is wrong on either side is as confusing to a child who needs to be taught that it is okay to be different. Its like teaching a child that everyone is beige and there are no different cultures and probably just as dangerous. The idea that the human race will be better off if everyone is the same is one of the deadliest ideas in history its been proven wrong so many times I couldn’t begin to list them all. I think “genderless” is a dangerous concept that causes as many problems as it solves. Why haven’t white people figured out yet that the best thing to do is embrace and celebrate our differences since all this conversion and ignorance has brought nothing but pain?

I am quite bothered to see where our great country is heading, on the grounds of not offending anyone. I personally find this whole uni-gender movement quite offensive. Have we lost sight of Christianity? Did we forget that our Creator made us different? We should be celebrating our differences rather than hiding them.

Okay, I couldn’t resist. Here’s the interview with my 5 year old boy:

Me: Do you think there are any differences between boys and girls?
W: Yep. Boys wear pants and girls wear dresses.
Me: Is it okay for girls to wear pants?
W:Yeah, sometimes but normally all the girls around here wear dresses.
Me: What about if …a boy wore dresses?
W:(laughing) That’s silly Mom. I don’t ever see boys wear dresses. Me: what if you saw one?
W: That would be silly.
Me: Why would that be silly?
W: Because it would.
Me: what’s silly about dresses?
W: Mom boys like wearing pants and shorts because we have balls, our balls would be hanging out in a dress okay??(seemingly exasperated with me and no longer laughing)
Me:(trying not to laugh) Got it. Next question. what would you say if somebody said you could no longer use the words he/she or him and her, boy/girl and you just had to call them by their names?
W:I would like that!
Me: what would you call them if you didn’t know their names?
W: I’d just make stuff up. That’d be fun!…… Mom, these are weird questions.
Me: Why are they weird?
W: Ugh. are we almost done?
Me: okay. just one more?
W: okay just one!
Me: Do you like Sports?
W: Yes! the Dodgers!
Me: Any others?
W: Ummmmm Fishing?
Me: Do girls like Sports?
W: Sometimes.
Me: can you give me an example of Sports girls like?
W: Ice Skating? Ballet? Gymnastics?
Me: okay. what about baseball do girls like baseball?
W: Well you are a girl and you like baseball!
Me: Yes, that is true!Do other girls like baseball?
W: Maybe, I don’t know, mostly girls like stuff where they can wear sparkly clothes.
Me: ohhh okay, but you said I like baseball, and I don’t wear sparkly clothes? W: Yeah, but you are different.
Me: Why am I different?
W: I don’t know, you just are. Are we done now?
Me: okay thank you
W: ugh finally!(and he ran off)

So there you have it: Boys don’t wear dresses because their balls would hang out, and girls only like sports where they can wear sparkly clothes, and apparently I am just different and my child has no idea why?! This was very interesting and definitely good for a laugh:)

“Boys don’t wear dresses because their balls would hang out” is the funniest thing I’ve heard today. Thank you.

“I personally find this whole uni-gender movement quite offensive. Have we lost sight of Christianity?” I personally find this whole Christians-Bring-Every-Damn-Subject-No-Matter-How-Unrelated-Back-To-Jesus movement quite offensive. And egotistical. And Myopic.

@ Laura – Loved that conversation, children are so raw. Ideals all start in the home and cultivatively end up in society. I agree, children should just be as long as you raise them with compassion and respsect differences instead of shunning them. I think the move toward being genderless isn’t something that we should enforce necessarily but ALLOW children to make choices that feel right to them concerning their identity. If my son wanted to try on my daughter’s dress, why not? Is it because it would make him “gay”? What’s wrong with that? I will still love him regardless if he was. Now if he was being violent and stabbing my daughter’s dolls and tearing her clothes off, that’s unexceptable, disrespectful behavior that I wouldn’t allow. That’s why I love this country, everybody has the freedom to make the choice to be who they want to.