babble » blogs » Strollerderby
Strollerderby
Amazon Pulls “Pedophile’s Guide” After Talk of Boycott
How much is a crappy, self-published guide for child molesters worth to Amazon? Not more than the support of parenting bloggers just a few weeks before the holiday season.
After defending their right to sell “The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure” yesterday, today Amazon appears to have yanked the ebook from their site, according to AOL News.
Amazon hasn’t issued an updated statement about their decision to sell or not sell this book, but searching for it brings up an error message.
About time.
An error message is about what that book was worth. The author’s comments to CNN were extremely disturbing, as were the clips from book. It was clearly designed to facilitate the rape of children. That’s a pretty solid violation of Amazon’s own content guidelines, which state that they will not publish anything they consider “objectionable” or that might lead to “criminal activity”.
This is a book about how to rape kids. It’s hard to imagine anyone wouldn’t find that objectionable, and rape is certainly a criminal activity.
Given how clear the violation of their own publishing rules is, why did Amazon initially defend this?
The San Francisco Business Insider claims Amazon was just sticking by their usual practice. They sell a wide array of objectionable books, from Holocaust deniers to videos of dogfighting. This one is different in that it’s a how-to guide to commit violent crimes. It’s also different because Amazon wasn’t simply selling the book. They were acting as the publisher as well.
A few people, including Paula here at Strollerderby, said they won’t boycott Amazon over this book because they believe so strongly in freedom of speech. Neil Gaiman would be proud; he wrote a classic essay a few years ago about the defense of icky speech.
Do you think Amazon should sell anything anyone wants to publish? Or were they right to respond to the critics and pull this book? They’re not a government, they’re a business. I think they made the right call here, finally.
Their change of heart doesn’t change my position though: I still won’t buy anything from Amazon because they’re just too big. I believe local, independent, diverse booksellers protect real freedom of speech better than any behemoth.
Photo: Amazon
Go Back To Strollerderby
14 Comments
bob commented on Nov 11 10 at 12:16 pmPerhaps you could define what you mean by “real freedom of speech,” how local booksellers are better at protecting it, and how it differs from what was at stake here.
Mistress_Scorpio commented on Nov 11 10 at 12:30 pmOnce you accept the premise that ideas are as harmful as actions, you can make an argument to censor pretty much anything.
Sierra Black commented on Nov 11 10 at 12:40 pmSure. I think freedom of speech means that we all have the legal right to say what we like without being persecuted by the government for saying it. In that sense, this isn’t even a freedom of speech issue: Amazon isn’t the government, and they can sell or not sell any book they choose. They have no power o prosecute or persecute the author.
However, if Amazon were to achieve a monopoly over the publishing and sale of books, they would have the de facto power to censor anything that was written, even if they didn’t have the weight of law behind them.
They might, in that instance, be a benevolent dictator that never refused to publish/sell anything, or a different kind of benevolent dictator that only censored really bad books like ones that advocate harming little kids, or a capricious one that censored books they happened to dislike, or an iron-fisted one that abused their power the way Fox News does in small media markets where they have a monopoly over local news.
It wouldn’t really matter. We’d have lost an important aspect of freedom of speech by allowing one private company to stand at the gates of publishing.
I think it’s important to preserve not only the legal right of all people to speak freely, but a diverse publishing marketplace that promotes the ability of all people to exercise that right, speak their minds and have access to a wide array of ideas.
No matter how good they are, no one company should have the power to act as the final gatekeeper on publication of a written work.
In this instance, Amazon should not sell this book because it violates their own terms of service. The author has other options: he can seek out another publisher, make print copies at his local copy shop (if they’ll let him), or buy a creepy server and a creepy domain name and host his own creepy website.
ps: I will always love you for that “pack of dingoes just ate a blogger” comment.
Hill commented on Nov 11 10 at 1:16 pmI strongly believe you’re wrong, in part because I’m a first amendment scholar and spend my life thinking about this, and in part because you’re ignoring the massive power of community norms. I’ll try to keep this brief, since comments are hardly the place for nuanced argument, but you need to consider the following:
Local, independent bookstores rely on the patronage of locals to stay in business. This means they must stock books that locals approve of and will buy. This means that in the bible belt, you’re not likely to have LBGTQ books stocked in the local bookstores, even though you’re likely to have LBGTQ youth (and newly identified adults) who would very much benefit from access to such books. Where, then, should such people get access to these books? Amazon is a natural answer to that question– and the reviews and matching algorithms help these people separate the wheat from the chaff when deciding which book is right (and keep them from, by mistake, getting an “ex-gay” book or some such). So, large, non-local bookstores are highly beneficial for the dissemination of information that many communities deem offensive (and therefore no “diverse, local, independent” bookstore will stock such materials. This is my defense of large, non-local sources of a huge variety of information.
Now, I haven’t read any self-published books about child rape (which I haven’t read, and I’m guessing you haven’t either) available on Amazon for download, so I don’t know how it fails (or passes) the Miller test or other possible standards that could legally be applied to it—I don’t know if they book is protected by the first amendment as interpreted by SCOTUS – and neither do you. If it’s obscene under that test, by all means Amazon should stop selling it.
However, if it is legal, I believe that Amazon has nearly a duty to sell it (if they are going to be in that business to the extent they are) if they take corporate citizenship in America seriously. Amazon is the behomeath in the industry, with massive first mover advantage and market power, in some portions of its business, I venture to guess it has substantial market power. Companies with substantial market power should bear certain responsibilities, especially when that market power has the ability to silence unpopular opinion. A business can– and sometimes should– legitimately be concerned with “censorship” because this market power gives it quasi-governmental responsibility.
Second, we MUST as a society be able to draw a line between the written word, or even artificial depictions (CGI animation, for example) describing or depicting a crime and a crime itself. A crime requires harm. This book isn’t harming anyone– and anyone reading it is responsible for their own actions, before the book, after the book, at all points. The same is true for someone publishing a book on how to make meth, or the hundreds of books out there already that encourage rape of adult women, or which give people ideas about how they can get away with murder. As a society we’re irrational when it comes to children, and perhaps that’s vaguely rational (given that children often need special consideration)… but that doesn’t change the fact that this book itself isn’t causing harm to, or evidence of, a single hurt child.And as a final point thought, should Amazon pull Plato’s Symposium? It is also a manual on how men can/should seduce pre-pubescent and pubescent boys. Really. Clearly you would draw the line somewhere between Plato and Greaves… but where, and on what principle? These are not easy questions, despite the ease with which you seem to dismiss the free expression value of books about child rape.
miss_chance commented on Nov 11 10 at 1:59 pmWow. This may be the single most informative, educational, and though-provoking discussion I’ve ever seen in the Comments section of any blog post anywhere. I wish more of the Internet was like this.
Thank you, both of you. This really has given me something to think about. I usually fall on the side of “pro-local, anti-large-corporations,” and Sierra articulates that position well. But Hill’s comments are remarkable for raising issues that are more nuanced and take in a larger “big-picture” than I had been considering. Thank you both.
miss_chance commented on Nov 11 10 at 2:02 pmHill, How do we interpret cases in which a work passes a “Scotus-Test” of being non-pornographic, but would be trapped in the newer laws that prohibit inciting hate-crimes? I guess this is off-topic here, so maybe I should ask you in some other context.
Hill commented on Nov 11 10 at 3:02 pmMiss_Chance– that is actually quite complicated, and you’re right, it’s a little off-topic (hate crimes are not at issue here). I’m happy to talk to you about it in other contexts. The short version is that the Supreme Court’s incitement standard (even for “hate speech”) requires a very high likelihood of imminent violence. That is, a real and very foreseeable harm happening nearly immediately. A nice summary that puts the US in international context on this can be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/world/americas/11iht-hate.4.13645369.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
pqbon commented on Nov 11 10 at 3:46 pmIn my mind you have just given up your right to complain the next time a private company refuses to support or carry LGBT literature…
You seem to forget that ~50% of this country believes in a mythic gay agenda and wants all information & portrayal of LGBT wiped out of our culture.
And as far writing about or inciting illegal activities – as much as I think it was wrong and stupid – the supreme court upheld the state’s right to outlaw sodomy – making participating a LGBT sex illegal in some places in the US. So any book that talks at all about any kind of LGBT sexual encounter is talking about an illegal activity.
Do I find the thought of this book abhorrent… yes I do – but I find censorship more abhorrent.
As they say the road to hell is paved with the best intentions.
pqbon commented on Nov 11 10 at 3:49 pmOh and as far as:I still won’t buy anything from Amazon because they’re just too big. I believe local, independent, diverse booksellers protect real freedom of speech better than any behemoth.
Have you ever gone shopping in a small town or even worse a small town in a conservative area. Try finding something as innocuous as “And Tango Makes Three” as a small book store in a small town.
Lori Reed commented on Nov 11 10 at 7:00 pmHill would you please do a guest post on my site? lorireed dot com
I would love to have you weigh in!
bob commented on Nov 12 10 at 10:17 amSierra, I’m happy to know that dingo comment didn’t fall flat, as I thought it might have. (Seems they are descending on Paula this week.)
.
I think you have done a nice job of articulating your arguments and I share your general distrust of the power held by large corporations as well as your revulsion at this book and author. I also support your right to use your buying power as you see fit. I differ primarily in how I want booksellers to operate. I prefer that they provide maximum access to information, without considering whether any given offering might bring on a boycott from a large enough group to hurt profits.
Penn Girl commented on Nov 12 10 at 12:02 pm@Hill, assuming that this book would pass the three-prong obscenity test set out by SCOTUS (and, unlike works by Plato, I doubt it has any serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value), of course Amazon has the right to sell it, but I find it a stretch to claim that Amazon has an obligation to sell it on corporate citizenship grounds. With the internet and social networking sites readily available to anyone with a library card, it can hardly be said that any one publishing company has a monopoly on the written word. Mr. Gervaise is free to post his book on any number of websites. I don’t think the first amendment gives him any sort of right to publication or profit, just a freedom from censorship.
Hill commented on Nov 12 10 at 6:21 pmpqbon: as a matter of law, you’re mistaken. Lawrence v. Texas struck down all state anti-sodomy laws in 2003.
Hill commented on Nov 12 10 at 6:55 pmOops, I should have combined comments… @Penn Girl- I (and many others) have significant problems with the “serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value” standard (and, actually all prongs of Miller)… I know of no non-results oriented principle that effectively separates the “serious” from those that aren’t “serious.” You’re also correct that there is no “First Amendment Right” to be published or to turn a profit (although he could copyright the book).
The internet is often held as the end of barriers to the dissemination of ideas. I don’t believe that argument because the internet simply has too much content. When one google searches something, hundreds of thousands of hits come up– especially if you’re not quite sure what you’re looking for (indeed, there are many startups out there attempting to create better search engines). A non-Amazon example: There are hundreds of sites out there with local business reviews, for example, but (at least in Boston) Yelp is the go-to site… the others simply don’t measure up in search mechanisms, reliability, comprehensiveness etc. THIS is power on the internet. With that kind of power comes, I believe, certain responsibilities. In the area of Yelp I believe those responsibilities include not loading advertiser’s pages with fake reviews. In the area of Amazon, I believe it’s not restricting unpopular (but legal) content.
Add your take:
Note: Babble is a supportive, diverse community. We encourage a range of opinions,
but any unduly hostile comments will be removed.
Comments are delayed up to 15 minutes







Lori Garcia
Joslyn Gray
Amber Doty
Julianna Miner
Monica Bielanko
Sierra Black
Meredith Carroll
Carolyn Castiglia
Sunny Chanel
Madeline Holler
Rebecca Odes
Danielle Smith
Danielle Sullivan
Katherine Stone
The Walt Disney Company supports Babble as a platform dedicated to honest, engaged, informed, intelligent and open conversation about parenting. However, the opinions expressed on this site are those of individual parents/writers and do not reflect the views of Disney. In addition, content provided on this site is for entertainment or informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice, diagnosis, treatment, or safety advice.

14