[...] I like this post at Stroller Derby, which is a different response than mine or Jezebel’s: Generating a culture of fear around [...]

[...] remain people, too (often with family four times zones away). And kids are people. I really like how Sierra put this at Strollerderby: I’m a mom who believes that the well-being of our children is a shared responsibility of [...]

“In North America, people often seem to feel entitled to treat kids like they’re a public nuisance…” I actually think this is much worse in France. You really aren’t supposed to take your kids anywhere, even a casual brasserie. (But dogs are more than welcome.) In comparison, I find the US to be absolutely welcoming to children. Maybe I’m just not paying enough attention, but I personally find people here to like having children around. When my son is with me people are just a little bit nicer.

However, this is not the first time when I hear mention about keeping kids out of bars. Isn’t this illegal anyway?

Usually they cut tourists some slack, but for people who live there is it kind of a known thing not to bring a kid to a restaurant. I didn’t have kids when I was living there, but my cousin told me that this is one reason why McDonald’s has become so popular there, since it is the only “restaurant” people feel comfortable bringing their kids to. I agree about Spain being more friendly towards kids. (And Italy and Greece even more so.)

Our kids do actually have an off switch. It’s the door. Why this doesn’t work on airplanes and I have nothing but patience and sympathy for the kid and the parent going through a tantrum or misery on a flight, I have very little in the grocery store, sit-down restaurant or library.

Yes, kids are people. People without impulse control or any sense of others around them.

I actually tend more to agree with the Jezebel writer, though, and even though most of the time I am annoyed with “feminism” I don’t see Feministe’s point in bringing that into it. It really doesn’t work. I am questioning the timing described in her post where she says something about a “invited me to come hang out for a few drinks and chill time as the sun came up”…so, is she keeping her kid up all night? Or, is it just that they are awake very early? I am all for integrating children into society and taking them everyplace, but you do need to respect their bedtimes and their need for sleep!

I can only speak for my observations and those of my family and friends. However, I guess my main point was that I really don’t think it is all that bad over here. For example, I have flown at least 20 times with my son. There was only one time that someone gave me a funny look. And that was all. No confrontation, no snide comment. When I go out with my son people seem to be extra nice and accommodating.

I think maybe people remember a few bad moments and that sticks in their head and they end up thinking that people are not friendly to kids in general. Also, I think people here have this idea that everything in Europe is so much better as far as having kids in concerned. While there may be some things that are great, there are good things here too. If not, we wouldn’t have such a high birth rate.

I do think there are places you just shouldn’t take any child, no matter how well-mannered, because even the best children have off days and there are places that are just not intended for children. I also think that some people are just predisposed to hate your child for existing in the first place. I’ve flown with my daughter a few times, and I’ve had the whole range from people who offered to help unfold our stroller to a guy across the aisle who kept making dramatic bad smell faces at my clean-bottomed kid.

I understand, alas, how some people could get to hate children on sight. I have relatives who used to just let their kid wander around in restaurants, poke at strangers’ plates, disorder the unoccupied tables, etc. Parents like that are why some people just assume kid = ruination of their evening.

I agree with this statement “They’re people with needs very different from those of adults.” I think that as long as treat our kids like other human beings we will have less problems with discipline. I come from a culture (Hispanic) where kids are as important as any adult in the family. Weddings, Birthdays or any other kind of party is planned involving kids. We do not have to specify kid-friendly or family friendly, we assume kids are included in every aspect of our lives. Like Gretchen, I have never experienced a major tantrum that I could not control. Even thought he has been going to daycare since he was 6 weeks old. Actually he has great social skills and I am sure it is because of the daycare experience. However I do not know why people have a hard time understanding why kids have tantrums since I see adults all day long having tantrums of their own, the only difference is that kids have not lived long enough yet to learn how to cope with the emotions the experience when situations make them upset for any given reason and even some adults do not keep their emotions in check many times. Hence, the brawls at kids baseball games, the name calling at check out line because somebody else cut in line, etc. So who are we to judge them. Last, many times kids have tantrums because parents are trying to prevent them from doing things that are wrong but never corrected at home.

Of course kids are people and should be out in public. And yet, I don’t believe that you should inflict your misbehaving kids on others. When my kids were small, we took them to nice places, but if they started losing it, we took our dinner to go and left. That’s just basic courtesy.

I take affront to the idea that you can’t be a feminist and still understand that your child means sacrifice. Children thrive best in an environment with rules and structure, countless studies have confirmed this. And part of providing that structure, those rules, requires sacrifice on the part of the parent. Regardless of how you feel about women and their role in society I don’t understand how anyone could argue with it. Kids with normal bedtimes and good amounts of sleep learn faster and more efficiently, that means sacrificing partying until the sun comes up.

People with kids (like myself) should be respectful of others and, when possible, do everything within their power to not have their kids be a disruption in public spaces. I am lucky, because my LO is usually an angel in public and saves his tantrums for home. But the reason my sympathies have to lie with the Feministe blogger in this case is that some people seem to think they have a right to never see a child if they wish. Should we also remove all the old people from your sight? They can also lose control over their bowels, and be unpleasant. We live in a community. That means having respect and tolerance for people of all ages and abilities. These children will one day grow up and be the doctors, chefs, and public servants you want things from, so it is unreasonable, unless you plan to never get any assistance from anyone younger than you, to think they need to be quarantined to their house until the age of 18. I have to admit I find teenagers much more annoying in public than toddlers and babies, but I’m dealing with it. It’s their world too.

Comments i dont like kids invading adult spaces, we dont have kids and i dont like it when parents let their kids run wild in stores or malls
or anywhere..if they want to act like animals take them to the zoo.
sorry but the well being of YOUR child is not a shared responsiblity by everyone,,,you produced him you take care of him…in public or in your own home.shared responsibility…what a big truck load of crap that is.

I definitely agree that children are found annoying by too many people. We were all children in the past. Plus, just be reasonable: You don’t go on an airplane to enjoy a quiet snooze. In a restaurant there is no problem with someone bumping you or looking at you or making a bit of noise, it is a public place after all. Same goes for the grocery store: Why are people there looking for peace and quiet? I can understand perhaps the theatre or orchestra, where the whole point is to be quiet so everyone can enjoy the presentation, but not nearly as many places as some believe.
Perfecting Parenthood

I understand the frustration that a lot of moms have with other peoples attitudes towards children, but I also think that a lot of parents look at it from a very one sided perspective; their own.

I am a mom to a 3y old boy, and when I want to go to a nice restaurant with my husband, I wouldn’t even consider taking my toddler with me. Not because he misbehaves on a regular basis, but because he is 3, his behavior is totally unpredictable. He can go from being a cute little angel to being a horrible little demon without as much as a moments notice. It doesn’t happen often, his tantrums are usually restricted to the house, but I know that toddlers don’t always behave the way you would want them to.

Yes, I do expect people to have some consideration for my child’s behavior, exactly because it can be unpredictable, but I don’t go around shoving it in peoples faces when they are just trying to have a nice, and quiet, night out.