[...] Moms Who Work Are Child Abusers? [...]

[...] Are working moms child abusers? StrollerDerby found someone who thinks so. [...]

Do men’s opinions really count? Emphasis on opinion…I mean men have a long history of trying (and succeeding) in subduing women’s rights. I feel this particular book is an attack on women in the work place. This book essentially make women villians for taking care of their children if they stay home (state assistance) or make them villians for going to work; it is a no win situation. For those women, that want to chime in about it not really doesn’t cost too much money if you cut back on everything in life to stay home with the kids. I see the bills, I pay the bills and what happens if my husband dies or worse becomes disabled — there would be no fiancial security for my family. I don’t judge women that are willing to take that risk, I am not willing to place all my eggs in one basket.

If he’s going to point fingers, why point them just at MOMS who parent? Why not get mad at all the working dads too? They’ve been at work for a lot longer than moms have been (historically speaking) and noone’s ever suggested that they were ‘abusing’ their children by not being around.

In an ideal world every parent would have the time off, paid, they wanted to for the first few years of their child’s life. This only happens in a small handful of countries, however, and they’re across the pond. In this day and age, when both parents’ incomes are needed, or single parents must work multiple jobs, we have to do what we can to keep the fridge stocked and the lights on. That means daycare and nannys, that means school instead of homeschooling, that means missing school plays and birthdays and other special events. It’s not the parent’s fault things are this way, our entire society has changed. We’re just struggling to keep up.

I wonder why the Mom logic and Babble focus on this *now*? This book came out last fall. Anyway, I’m glad to have found out about it here, since from what is said in this post and Mom logic, I would tend to agree with Dr. Fine. I do feel for those women who do *have* to go to work for financial reasons and leave their babies in someone else’s care. It must be the saddest thing. I think this is an indication of a broken social system. I strongly believe that children under school age (5, 6) belong primarily in the care of a parent, when at all possible. Certainly babies under 1 and up to 2, without a doubt. I could never, ever have left my infant child with a daycare or nanny. I believe that there is nobody better qualified to care for my baby than me, and it is not something I would have been willing to outsource. If you can’t take a year off work, then maybe you should wait to have a baby. Or, work at night when your husband is home and the baby is asleep, if you must. What is worse is the notion of “…the mom who goes to work because it fulfills an important part of her that motherhood alone cannot…” who COULD afford to stay home and does not. Read a book. Get a hobby. Volunteer. Search yourself and find out why you can’t give a year or five of your life for your child? I also agree with his views on breastfeeding, as represented here. Unless you have a physical problem that makes you unable to breastfeed (in which case, again, my hear goes out) you have to have your priorities seriously out of order to choose not to.

It seems like someone tries to stir up controversy with this kind of thing every few years. The effects of day care on children have been extensively studied and the results have NOT shown that children who spent time in day care are traumatized or damaged. Children who have spent time in day care have a slightly higher (within the normal range) tendency to disruption and aggression in later school settings; they also have slightly better (again, not dramatically) verbal skills and a 30% lower chance of developing acute lymphoblastic leukaemia. In other words, children who were in day care are worse off in some ways than their peers, better off in others, and the difference isn’t dramatic either way. I’m going with the evidence.

Looking at his web site, however, makes it clear that this man is the deep end of the woo pool, so I doubt the scientific evidence matters to him all that much. He’s “an early pioneer in Alternative Health and Preventive Medicine,” “always on the cutting edge of change in Holistic Healing,” and specializes in “Wisdom Teachings” among other things. I’m sure he’s sincere in his beliefs, but unless you happen to share his particular ideological bent, I can’t think of a reason in the world to take him seriously.

I would like to see whether he actually calls it “abuse” or that is the interpretation of the journalist. I, too, would not call it “abuse”. Perhaps “neglect”…

Amen, Blue!

I have read studies that conclude that if a baby is primarily with caregivers other than the mother and father for their first year they will probably develop and attachment disorder later in life. Seriously, if you CAN stay home and just choose to work full time for your own benefit, you are selfish. As a baby nanny, I have seen the other end of it and believe me, your kid is pissed that you are not with them. The kids I have watched only part time (12 hrs/wk) were way easier to manage than babies I watched 25 hrs/wk. I can’t imagine what full time day care does to a child. One year of your life out of the workforce just to love on your kid, if you can’t do that just because you like working full time so much, you should not have had a baby. Moms that HAVE to work to support their families are obviously just doing their best and hopefully Dad or another family member can watch the baby at least part of the time. I really just have beef with the moms that can’t put aside their own “personal fulfillment” for just one year to ensure that their kid gets the most love possible. A caregiver will NEVER take your place as the person with the most love for your baby. Trust me, I love my kid a million times more than the kids I watch/have watched. No comparison. I am his best caregiver, and unless you have a PPMD where you are a danger to your kid you have no excuse.

IF YOU DON’T DO IT THE WAY I DO IT THEN YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

Yes, I too would like to see Kat’s evidence. As I said, the studies I’m aware of show that there are small differences between the day care groups and the cared-for-by-mom groups, large enough to be statistically significant but probably not large enough for one to make one’s life decisions by one way or the other. Actual attachment disorders are found in children who were neglected in orphanages or not cared for by anybody at all, not children who were in day care.

LOL, libs!

Why not adopt a school-age child, then, those like patricia and such? This way, you can offer love and your resources, but the child will be in school while you’re working, if work is so important?

Like I’m going to listen to anything crazy Dr. Amy says? Don’t think so!

I have to say…well said!

*yawn* another false choice. I agree with the post – aren’t we past this work vs. stay-at-home debate? At best it is a continuum wherein most families find their stride, but I think in this sad economy it’s become more of a scattershot – you do what you can with what you have and f**k-all if someone is going to make you feel bad for it.

I’d love to stay home, and my husband and I have arranged things financially so that only one income is necessary to get by for a few years (and no, we’re not rich – maybe a bit lucky in the CA housing market but otherwise middlin’ folks). However, I like my job and am on an upward trajectory. My husband hates his job and wants to make a transition to another field over the next few years after the economy recovers. It seems absurd that I would quit the job I like and consign him to the job he hates because I want to be the one who stays home with my sweet little boy (also important that I make enough to carry us). Seems mean-spirited, especially since he’s an amazing Dad and a fabulous cook.

I just despise how these silly henfights happen well, between hens. It’s not about women and their choices. In addition to pointing the finger at a society that expects us to be cogs in the GDP machine from cradle to grave, we should also continue to insist that our husbands (or prospective ones) develop their competence at childcare and housekeeping too. It’s galling that my husband is the only man in the institutional memory of his company who took more than a week or two off to bond with his child. Men need to have more skin in this game for the benefit of their families and each other. Oppressive gender roles go both ways and I’ll bet many men hate being considered just a paycheck as much as women hate being thought of as a housekeeper/nanny with benefits.

Early childhood happens so quickly and before you know it they don’t even want you around anymore, much less want a snuggle. I see our family’s choice as a way to slow things down for a bit, so that we can all wring every last bit of enjoyment from being together. There are obviously other means to this important end though and none of them are diminished by or challenge what we do.

Child raising is not about something as cold as “science”…its about love and a primordial bond. It’s an art, not a science. Science will tell you a band-aid on a scraped knee will work as well as a kiss. I would say otherwise. You can consign me to any bin you want.

I wonder if GP renamed herself PowerMama…

Now, now, we don’t want to confuse anyone with something so “cold” as facts and outcomes…Their feelings—and not the feelings of anyone who disagrees with them—are better than anything, right?
Honestly, that sounds snarky, but seriously, when it comes to your own family, that’s usually the truth. You know what situation YOUR kid(s) will do well in better than a neighbor or a stranger on the internt, for sure. But looking at anyone else, and judging whether they “have” to work, based on what you see of their finances, or whether they are selfish, is just ridiculous. You couldn’t possibly know based only on child’s age, family’s income, and parent’s anatomy, whether the kid is better off with mom all day.
I’ve been a parent for 8, coming up on 9 years. I’ve been a SAHM and I’ve been a student, and I’ve worked, and each time I did what was best for my family at that time. The school my kids are at, which includes daycare, is a total blessing for my family because it really provides a community of parents, kids and educators dealing with special needs that I don’t think I could’ve ever matched with a “mommy group” or some of the other “alternatives” people suggested when I was seeking out an inclusive daycare and planning to go back to work.
My kids are definitely not abused.

Cold, cold scientist weighing in here to say…

Actually, I don’t have any time for or interest in weighing in. How about this: anyone who wants to continue this fight can be cordoned off on this thread and judge away. Anyone who wants to “live and let live” and continue to share their thoughts and ideas about parenting in a non-judgemental and constructive way, let’s leave it alone.

OK…back to my jobby-job.

Mistress Scorpio, I was wondering for awhile if she was puke. GP seemed to disappear at the same time as a couple of other screen names with similar aggressive views appeared.

As a fellow psychologist, I would say that the only reason that other people would be so emotionally invested in other people’s choices, especially on something as innocuous as to whether the mother works outside of home (which, by the way, has not been shown by research to be deleterious for the child’s intellectual or emotional development as long as the child is in good quality childcare) is because it somehow threatens the choices that said person has made. Perhaps, Dr. Jeffrey Fine, a male, feels threatened by all of the working mothers in his career field, which is a field that is very much dominated by women and working mothers. Perhaps, the fact that children of working mothers thrive just as well as children of stay-at-home mothers brings up uncomfortable or unsettling feelings for PowerMama, who can no longer defend her decision to stay at home as superior.

I have to chime in on the “cold science” comment, although I am getting a bit off-subject. I love science, and don’t find it cold at all! It can be exciting and eye-opening. This comment is yet another example of how we look down on science in our society.

@ChicaDificil – thank you for your comment. I also think that those who judge the most are actually jealous of those they are judging.

Why just women? Aren’t fathers parents just the same as mothers? Why would a child not bond as well with a stay at home dad as with a stay at home mom? PowerMama, you and I will never agree on this issue and I’m completely comfortable with my own choices (thank God I HAVE choices, because, again, the roof over my family’s head is provided by my job that I refused to quit). My kids are as happy and healthy as they can be and I don’t care whether you doubt that, because I see that truth. My earlier comment was only to illustrate that sometimes things aren’t quite as black and white as you seem to think they are. We aren’t making any ground in that discussion, however, so I’m really curious what your thoughts are on why it must be WOMEN doing the caretaking? I would appreciate it too if you could elaborate with something more specific beyond simply stating that a child needs its mother. I stipulate that a child needs A PARENT, ideally both parents. Why does the gender matter?

Of course it is for a five year old…but a 6 month old? And I’m not saying just women should be with babies, or that women should not be docs or lawyers or whatever. I am just saying that when you have a baby, ideally, you sign up for the care of that baby-preschooler being your big job for the next 3-5 years. Babies need MOMS their first year, breastfeeding anyone? This is how we were made. You can make all the excuse, cases, whatever you want, but mamas and babies go together. I am all for women having careers when their kids are older. But when you have a BABY, your best place is with your baby. Otherwise don’t have one. Seriously, no one answered the why not adopt question!?!

I think that when kids are school aged, or in preschool, they begin to get exposed to other adults and that’s appropriate. I disagree that increasing the number of adults in a a BABY’S life is good for them. They need the bonding with their mom. Say what you want. You’re going to believe what suits your lifestyle anyway, and that’s fine. I don’t think its ABUSIVE. I just think it’s stupid and lame.

Further, I am not saying that someone who (magically?) “gets” pregnant who can’t afford a parent to stay home with the baby, or is single (? why would someone choose this is beyond me) should give their child up for adoption. There are all kinds of cases of “things gone wrong”…a jerk dad splits, a woman gets pregnant out of wedlock, etc. and of course, she’s gotta do what she’s gotta do, and bless her for dealing with it and not getting an abortion. I am saying, that women who can plan and have the wherewithal, who are in a relationship with an adult partner, should not outsource the care of their infants. Let’s face it, a good many people today COULD stay home, but they CHOOSE not to. You can pull out any number of sob stories and I feel sorry for them and would encourage society to help. But I am talking about ideals here.

I don’t think she’s GP…Maybe Dr. Laura…

OMG! So *that’s* why my mom starting lactating after my baby was born. Wow…NOT! You foolish person…My “view” is not “manufactured” by anybody. It’s biology and it’s been that was since the dawn of time.

That’s fine, you found a passable substitute for your own breast, but don’t tell me that’s SUPERIOR to you being there (as the brilliant JEssica is saying).

Nobody is tearing down YOU or YOUR CHOICES. I believe it was said early in the comments that people do what they gotta do. In an IDEAL world, though…well, you know what I think. I would let it rest, but I was compelled to reply to JEssica’s ridiculous comment.

Or unless you want to sell books like this guy.

I would not call working and putting babies in daycare “abuse” but I understand where he is going with this. I posted this on another thread and I’ll reiterate here, I don’t need studies to tell me how to parent my infant or child…I don’t need studies to prove that its wrong to leave an infant crying… It’s just my instinct as a mother. I think, based on so many of the articles, posts and comments I read on Babble, that women have seriously lost their way in terms of their mothering instincts. Now they are trying to justify it all with science…the rushing back to work without a second though, the leaving their infants to cry, the lack of commitment to breastfeeding. I hope that over time the pendulum will swing back to some more healthy practices.

PowerMama, you cannot change the truth. Biology is only one aspect of being human, we didn’t just suddenly “poof” into being. We have changed over the course of time as a species. Think about it, why do we live so much longer than our fertile years? Because grandparents have a purpose to keeping the next generation alive. You say my comment is ridiculous, but insulting my comment is not validating your point of view. Just because you think something, does not make it so. Anthropology has shown in many cultures the grandmothers play an instrumental role in raising the young (around the world). The nuclear family you think is “traditional” is a very young concept that took root in the 50′s after the war, when there was significantly fewer men than woman. Men had a negotiation power women did not have during this period. You idealize something that is artifical in nature due to war. This same phenomonon did not happen after WWI because of the spanish flu pandemic (the flu killed more people than the war did and the flu killed more young women than men).

Well I grew up in a single parent household where my dad did everything for four kids. You sound spoiled Heather. The only thing your parents owe you is a place to sleep, clean cloths and food. Anything extra is just that, extra. Grow up.

I know this argument is long over, but I just have to add something. Since when is parenting about showering love on your children? Lots and lots of women are very loving but crappy parents! Parenting is about 1) keeping your children safe from harm and providing the basics they need, 2) putting them into an environment where they will thrive, and 3) teaching them to become useful members of society. All of this overdramatization of the love and bonding between mothers and babies sounds to me like a massive justification for dropping out of the world (or being forced out) when you give birth. It “feels” natural?? It didn’t feel natural to me to spend every waking moment with a baby strapped to my boob. And I know it also “feels” like no one can love your baby as much as you do, but you know what? You’re wrong. I love my little girl very, very much — maybe even more than I love anyone else, at least for now. But I will not apologize for continuing to be a functioning member of society while I raise her. That is for her benefit as well as mine. Sorry, but I think devoting yourself to your child makes you a crappy mother. Who needs a martyr? So go ahead and suffocate your children with “love” (control), I really don’t care, but my kid will be busy using her own imagination and growing her own boundaries and developing her own sense of self because she is surrounded by ideas and people who love her other than me. Yes, even as a baby. And she’ll grow up to be her own frickin’ person.