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They Say: Swine Flu — Much Ado About Nothing
When I asked our kids’ pediatrician about the swine flu vaccine, he said that it was up to us, but that he wasn’t getting it. That’s telling, given that we figure he’s about 90 years old — he was my wife’s pediatrician too — and is thus a prime candidate. He said felt that the government and the media had made more of the disease than was appropriate. Given that he’s been practicing for more than 50 years, I tend to listen when he says something. But lest you think he’s been practicing a little too long, he is not alone in his assessment of the situation.
In Canada, Dr. Richard Schabas, chief medical officer of health for Hastings and Prince Edward Counties in eastern Ontario, said that the media is not putting the situation into proper perspective. Out of about 200,000 deaths in Canada each year, about 4,000 are due to the flu. “By the time all the dust has settled on H1N1, somewhere between 200 and 300 people will have died in this country,” Schabas said. The media, however, is just one piece of the problem.
“I’m not letting the media off the hook totally, but I think the real villains of the piece here have been those public health officials who have consistently overplayed and overstated the importance of what is happening,” he said. “By the time all is said and done, this is not a major public health event, but you’d never know that from what some people are saying.”
I think we’re still planning on getting the kids vaccinated (our youngest has had respiratory issues in the past and my wife is worried about him) but I suspect that both doctors are correct — Swine flu, while certainly devastating to those hit hardest by it, is just not the movie-of-the-week it’s been made out to be.
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[...] of the problems in trying to figure out exactly how serious swine flu is is the fact that the CDC stopped counting cases early on in the [...]
Swine Flu - CDC Estimates 540 Pediatric Deaths | Strollerderby commented on Nov 13 09 at 11:00 amLouise commented on Nov 12 09 at 11:35 amMy understanding is that, if your kids’ pediatrician has been practicing for more than 50 years, he falls into a category of people that might have some immunity from H1N1. So I’m not surprised that he’s not all fired up about getting the vaccine.
Louise commented on Nov 12 09 at 11:35 amBleh…I meant to say “he falls into a category of people that might have some immunity from H1N1 *because of his age*.”
Marie (http://wifeofhousehubby.blogspot.com) commented on Nov 12 09 at 12:19 pmI think it’s all been overblown also. Everybody I know who has had it says it has been milder than most seasonal flus. For now, I will hold off on the vaccine. If my kids get H1N1, then they’ll get the immunity naturally (kinda like we used to do with Chicken Pox).
Laure68 commented on Nov 12 09 at 12:34 pmAs Louise says, if he is older, he is definitely in the low-risk group for H1N1. Where did you get the idea that he was a prime candidate. If you have read anything at all about this flu, you would know this. (I know I sound harsh, but it drives me nuts when people write about medicine/science without knowing the very basic facts.)
Marie – not everyone who has had this flu has had it easy. I know 2 people who had very severe cases. Of course, that is just anecdotal, but you shouldn’t judge based on the people you know. (And are you sure they actually had the H1N1, and not just a cold?)
The whole idea that getting the immunity naturally is better is just wrong. With a safe vaccine out there, why would you want to subject your kids to being sick? I just don’t understand that mentality. Same with the chicken pox. Why subject your kids to an uncomfortable to painful illness (and give them the opportunity to get shingles later in life) when there is a vaccine?
The big issue is that people can’t get the H1N1 vaccine.
I do agree that this is not a panic situation. (If you look at the CDC website, they do not come off as panicked.) But it is the flu, which we should all take more seriously. We get our flu shots every year, since I’d rather get the shot and have a lower chance at actually getting the flu. Same with H1N1.
Laure68 commented on Nov 12 09 at 1:08 pmOne more thing – something this doctor is not taking into consideration is who is getting hit with this flu. On average, around 40 to 50 children die yearly of the flu in the US. As of October 20, there have been 114 children who have died of the swine flu, and the season is not over yet. In that way, we as parents should be concerned. Again, not in a panic, but concerned.
Laure68 commented on Nov 12 09 at 1:09 pmI’m sorry, I meant October 30.
Alison commented on Nov 12 09 at 2:15 pmIt is all well and good to say “most people who get H1N1 don’t die from it and then they will have developed an immunity to it naturally” but I imagine the parents of the children who have died from it wish the vaccine had been available before their children became exposed to the virus. Having the option of getting the vaccine and choosing not to is like playing Russian Roulette with your child’s life and the lives of other children–sure, it is unlikely that your child will die, and it is highly unlikely that, should your child get H1N1, any children your child infects will die, but it is not impossible. And even taking the chance of death off the table, the kids I know who have had pneumonia have been pretty miserable and have missed a lot of school and their parents have had to take time off from work to care for them. The fact that the vaccine is so hard to get is the real problem.
lisa commented on Nov 12 09 at 2:19 pmWell bless his heart. Your 90 yr old pediatrition doesn’t want it — he’s not even in one of the groups the CDC is recommending they vax. They are recommending seasonal flu vax but not h1n1 for his age group. Take a look at their web site — 65 yrs and older are not among the groups mentioned. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/public/vaccination_qa_pub.htm
Chances are, he already has an immunity given his age the theory that he has been exposed to a similar strain and therefore immune. Take a look at the number of pediatric deaths per week this year, and you get a picture of what’s happening here. Infants and children are the ones affected here. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2009-2010/IPD43.htm also see this http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/10/why_cdc_says_this_years_flu_se.php?utm_source=nytwidget.
Maybe the stats are different in Canada, but I think this is something to take note and, depending on underlying health issues especially, is something to look at. Your Dr may have many years of experience, but that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily up on all the research. Yes, he has to take continuing education but it is highly highly doubtful it had anyhting to do with h1n1.
Laure68 commented on Nov 12 09 at 3:01 pmSorry for the excess comments, but I need to update the numbers I wrote earlier.
From a story posted on Reuters today,
“About 82 U.S. children die in an average flu season.”
For the H1N1, year to date – “Children account for 8 million of the infected, 36,000 of those hospitalized and 540 deaths.”
Do you still think this is a regular flu season?
Madeline Holler commented on Nov 12 09 at 3:44 pmWhat drives me bonkers is that so many people (and doctors) are self-diagnosing H1N1. That’s been part of the problem in tracking the virus, they abandoned swabbing for it back in the summer. Now, just about everybody who has been sick for a couple of days says, “yeah, I think I got it … no biggie.” I think the fact that they’ve been getting flu shots out to the masses — and often for free! — has been great. I hate being labeled as “panicky” for actually wanting one for me and my kids.
Also, what do doctors care if your kid gets the flu. Ask your school’s principal and see what s/he says.
Alison commented on Nov 12 09 at 4:00 pmTo build on what Madeline said about the number of people who are self-diagnosing, so many people (including contributors to this blog) say stuff like, “My flu test came back positive, so I know I had H1N1″ when the reality is that the tests are not extremely accurate and will come back positive if you have been exposed to seasonal flu as well as H1N1. Just because someone tells you they had H1N1 and are fine doesn’t mean that they had it or that the disease isn’t serious.
lisa commented on Nov 12 09 at 4:21 pmI heard that the actual test to diagnose h1n1 is rather expensive. Most are working under the assumption that if it’s type A, it’s h1n1. I think it’s safe to say that all h1n1 is a type A, but not all type A is h1n1. What blows my mind are the parents, in some cases with kids w/asthma, who will give their children the seasonal shot but not the h1n1 despite the fact that this is essentially the same shot just different strain. My ped, in all seriousness, told me yesterday that she’s had to tell several parents that the vaccine is not a terrorist plot.
Ali commented on Nov 12 09 at 4:43 pmThe sympotoms of the H1N1 virus are a bit different than the regular flu. Swince flu does not cause the severe sinus congestion that the regular flu does because rather than multiplying in the sinus and throat like most flus, it replicates in the lungs. So this flu affects the lungs and that is why so many are dying from it. The airways are inflamed and constricted so removal of mucus and fluid is hindered and taking in enough air become difficult. This is a dangerous flu especially for those with smaller lung capacity such as small women, pregnant women, children and people with airway obstructions or lung disease. The lung symptoms get really bad really fast too, not slow lead up like the regular flu does, starting in the sinuses then moving down to the lungs to a cough. This starts in the lungs first. If you have difficulty breathing go see the doc immediately. Swine flu has killed an estimated 3900 people from April to October fo this year.
MsC commented on Nov 12 09 at 6:08 pmI went in for my annual pelvic this week and my OBGYN was beside herself that people aren’t taking it seriously. She’s had several colleagues lose pregnant patients to H1N1, and I’m in one of those counties where getting vaccinated is nigh on impossible.
Roger Sinasohn commented on Nov 12 09 at 6:42 pmFYI…
“Older adults and people with chronic diseases are at the greatest risk of problems associated with seasonal flu.”
“Of all age groups, individuals older than age 84 have the highest risk of dying from seasonal flu complications; those older than age 74 face the second highest risk of flu complications.”
http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-guide/fact-sheet-elderly-people
I could not find anything specific to H1N1 (WebMD says it’s too early to tell) that would indicate a significantly lower risk for the elderly then from other types of flu.
While I hadn’t looked for specific information, my experience working in a nursing home led me to assume that the risk for the elderly had not changed just because the virus had.
Laure68 commented on Nov 12 09 at 7:05 pmhttp://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20091112/over-22-million-in-us-had-h1n1-swine-flu?page=2
There is a reason why the elderly are not in the priority group for getting the H1N1 vaccine.
Laure68 commented on Nov 12 09 at 7:14 pmAlso, here is something directly from flu.gov
http://answers.flu.gov/questions/4301
I’m sorry, I’m really not trying to be a smart aleck, but this info has been out for a long time. I am kind of surprised you hadn’t seen it.
LogicalMama commented on Nov 12 09 at 8:04 pmI asked my pediatrician what she was personally dealing with in the practice. She said that she is seeing 2 cases a day and that the complications aren’t just lung issues, but also bacterial infections around the heart or brain! A good friend’s pediatrician is seeing 20 (!!!) cases a day in an urban setting! Of course, they aren’t testing anymore and it is suggested h1n1, but the only other virus going around here right now is strep (bacterial) so if the test comes back positive for influenza A, it’s safe to assume it’s h1n1.
I got my kid the mist b/c Kaiser had it and frankly, I don’t want to put him through the misery of this virus if I don’t have to. I also felt a civic duty to be a part of herd immunity. There is concern that the more exposure this virus gets to people, the more likely it is to mutate and the faster it can mutate!
Laura commented on Nov 12 09 at 11:50 pmI wish your doctor could speak to my neighbor. But he can’t, because she died of H1N1 last week. Her baby was born via c-section just before she died. Your doctor is ignorant, and you should find another one.
ChiLaura commented on Nov 13 09 at 12:09 amThis isn’t what I should be reading right before going to bed: Nightmare! 3 of the 4 of us got the vaccine because I was pregnant (okay, now there are 5 of us, but baby is too young), but my eldest son, 3.5 years, couldn’t get the vaccine because he was sick when we went to the free clinic to get it. And, of course, he’s the borderline asthmatic in the fam; I will die if he gets sick and something happens. I am beyond pissed, though, that this vaccine is being given away free but our doctor can’t get it, and neither can our hospital offer it. And I live in Chicago! I’m all for the free clinics, but why can’t doctors get it too? For my eldest son to get it now would mean waiting in a 4 hour long line with a 2 y/o and a 4 day old baby. Which is next to impossible. This makes me so, so angry. I’d pay thru the nose for it, too, but nobody has it. Argh!
Okay, need to go stabilize my blood pressure so I can sleep tonight.
patricia commented on Nov 13 09 at 9:50 amHey, ChiLaura, congrats on the birth of your baby!
As to the point at hand, I’m with those who can’t understand why you would put your kids through being sick, even if you think H1N1 is mild. Why?? Why would want your kids ever to be sick if something could prevent it? In my case, my oldest suffers from febrile seizures, which are scary but do no lasting damage, and which she will grow out of eventually. That’s still reason enough for me to vaccinate her, even if she would come through the flu just fine otherwise- do I really need to see the emergency room docs again? Plus asthma is in our family and I really don’t plan to take that risk.
Finding the vaccine is another matter, though. My pediatrician is having a cattle-call flu clinic tomorrow; here’s hoping my kids can get their shots. I live in Atlanta, and there’s been no vaccine here for weeks and weeks. One of the suburban counties received like 2000 doses a couple weeks ago and the line for it stretched from one end of a fairgrounds to the other.
mommiedear commented on Nov 13 09 at 1:41 pmI think it is just a hype. This happens every year with the flu the ‘swine’ flu is a big deal because of the weather being off kelter thse days and if we use common sense and practice hygiene. On http://www.truuconfessions.com we hav so many opinions being thrown around.
Laure68 commented on Nov 13 09 at 3:09 pmmommiedear – you can keep your opinions that are being “thrown around”. I’ll go with the facts when I make a decision regarding my child’s health.
Tiffanie commented on Nov 13 09 at 5:25 pmWe had it in our house and I was so frightened that my 7 month old was going to end up with pneumonia from it! Our doctor is taking it VERY seriously. My three year old did just fine, though he was very sick and on the couch for 4 days with it. While it’s mild in a lot of people, it’s still frightening when your small child is up coughing all night. Even once the fever is gone, the cough lingers and then you wonder if your child will end up with bronchitis or pneumonia. I understand not being hysterical about it, but concerned.. YES.. indeed people should be.
Cin-diego commented on Nov 13 09 at 6:49 pmI want to second the comment that young people are at MORE risk from H1N1 than the elderly — and yes, that is part of the very basic information about this pandemic. There are two reasons why for H1N1 the elderly are at less risk — 1) they were probably exposed to it one of the last couple times, and 2) at least during the 1918 swine flu, it was thought to be the strong, overreacting immune systems killing young people via a “cytokine storm”. Now, I think the second point may be turning out to be less of an issue this time around, but that is a big part of the reason people are concerned, and why young people up to age 24 are part of the high-risk priority group. A 24 year-old can get the vaccine, someone over that age without other risk factors is supposed to wait.
Yeah, surely Babble could find some doctor/researcher that can vet these medicine-related posts???
And FWIW, my ped says he is seeing a TON of cases, but he also said that without other risk factors (ie, cystic fibrosis, etc.) a kid is not likely to actually die. Nevertheless, IMO pretty damn scary.
GP commented on Nov 13 09 at 7:51 pmIf you can get the shots, get them, for heaven’s sake. What is wrong with people?????
Mistress_Scorpio commented on Nov 14 09 at 12:14 amMy son was supposed to get the shot today, but came down with croup and a fever, so we could not. And of course, they ran out of vaccine, so I can’t get him on the list again for two weeks. I am crossing my fingers. Not only are people ignorant of the facts, but they are sending around totally bizarro information. One earthy-crunchy woman I know sent me a missive about how the flu and the vaccine are an underground attempt by the World Health Organization, the CDC and the Obama administration to trim down the US population. That kind of bullshit makes me feel stabby.
Catem commented on Nov 14 09 at 12:26 amGosh, where to start?? First off, thanks Ali for the really great explanation about the lung vs. nasal issues – that’s the best description I’ve read so far and it makes total sense. Being an asthmatic with twin preschoolers, I’m weighing whether to stand in a horrible line tomorrow at a free clinic or wait until Dec for our docs to get the shot (and then hope we are on that list). It’s been keeping me up at nights too because I thought I had it a month ago but after Ali’s description, it seems that we had a regular cold/flu since it was terrible nasal and head congestion, not so much chest/lung.
Lastly, I’ll probably get flamed here for saying this but here goes…
My nephew was given the MMR shot and picked up a lovely case of autism. He’s 90% better but it’s been hell for my sister and our family for the past 4+ years. I know plenty’s been said about the shot (and thimerosol, mercury, etc) and it’s role not being responsible for autism but having seen this reaction first-hand I beg to differ. This is why my sister is gun-shy about giving her kids the h1n1 vaccine and probably will skip it… simply because she’s been burned before. That said, she is concerned about catching it but she’s just trying to grapple with her own set of odds, having been in that 1% pile.
While I do agree with the herd mentality and the importance of protecting ourselves and our children, there is a little voice inside that worries what the downside of the shot might be that we just don’t know about yet being that we have yet to see the long term effects of the vaccine. I understand it’s a variation on the seasonal flu vaccine but that’s presented issues for some recipients too.
Bottom line, I wanted to answer that “what’s wrong with people” question and personalize it a bit. There are the extremists out there that think it’s a conspiracy but there are also the parents cautious because of a prior vaccine experience gone so wrong… hard to lump them all together when their reasons are so different.
Be well and stay well!
Alison commented on Nov 14 09 at 1:47 pmCAtem, I won’t flame you, but I will bring your attention to all the studies which find no credible link between MMR and autism (wikipedia has a good breakdown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy#Recent_studies) and while you can say that your first hand experience of seeing it is proof that it does happen, all it really proves is that regressive autism exists and this is something people have been grappling with for centuries, long before vaccinations and the definition of autism (you cannot prove the vaccine caused your nephew’s autism, all you can prove is that your nephew’s symptoms became noticeable after the vaccine). I know a woman whose children cannot be vaccinated and when there are outbreaks of diseases, the whole family has to self-quarantine in order to protect themselves. The reason that there are now outbreaks of diseases? Because of people who just don’t want to take the tiny unknown risk that comes with vaccines, but are willing to take a huge known risk which comes from not vaccinating, not just a risk to themselves, but to everyone in the population who cannot be vaccinated or for whom the vaccine does not take (most vaccines only confer immunity in 70-85% of the people vaccinated). In terms of H1N1 and risks, we know that children and young people are dying in greater numbers from this disease than from seasonal flu. If people want to play russian roulette with their children’s lives, that is their choice, but I imagine the parents who have already lost children to this disease would have loved to have the vaccine.
J commented on Nov 18 09 at 1:52 pmfew people can get the vaccine, so what’s the use of arguing … not available anywhere around here,and we can’t get the regular flu shot either …
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