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Gang Member Who Tattooed Kid Says Circumcision is Worse
Remember the gang member who forced his seven-year-old to be inked with the gang’s symbol? His defense attorney is attempting to use proof that circumcision is more painful for a child to get his client off.
And look who just opened the door for a whole new war over “to circ” or “not to circ.”
Parents who read about the quarter-sized paw print tattooed on the seven-year-old boy’s hip to represent the Bulldogs, the Fresno street gang father Enrique Gonzalez is a member of, were outraged over what’s been labeled child abuse in worldwide media reports (including comments here on Babble).
But take most of the arguments against tattooing a child: the pain, the lifelong scarring. And you’ll see exactly why Gonzalez’s attorney opted for this route: they’re the exact same argument used against circumcising little boys.
Smart attorney for clouding the issue at hand. But are any of you buying it?
Even those who disgree with circumcision are willing to debate medical necessity (and yes, they come out saying it’s NOT medically necessary) and able to look at some science. There is no scientists calling for tattoos to reduce STD infections or studies extolling its virtues.
The boy, by the way, is having the tattoo removed (more pain the kid has to go through). Do you think circumcision and a tattoo on a seven-year-old compare?
Image: Fresno Bee (Gonzalez and his alleged partner in crime)
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18 Comments
Caroline commented on Oct 02 09 at 11:33 pmNeither are okay, as the child is not old enough to consent. At least with the tattoo, though, it can be removed. It also doesn’t permanently amputate a healthy functioning body part. Why is circumcision of an unconsenting child for any non-medical reason legal, anyway?
laura commented on Oct 03 09 at 2:08 amComments
Caroline is right – tattooing a child, while gross, doesn’t diminish their future sexual experience… Re HIV it’s worth remembering that the HIV-circ studies only showed that circ reduced HIV over a short period in some promiscuous heterosexual men in Africa. There’s no evidence the protection is long term – and America’s problems with HIV and other STDs suggests otherwise. You have much higher rates than Western Europe where men are mainly intact. The reality is that circ changes a man’s sexual behaviour as he tries to compensate his sensual losses….more *nal sex more partners fewer condoms. But all this is irrelevant to a child who doesn’t have sex.
jenny tries too hard commented on Oct 03 09 at 10:30 amNeither are okay in my book, but one cruel or misguided practice doesn’t justify another.
Mistress_Scorpio commented on Oct 03 09 at 1:06 pmI hate to say it, but the attorney has a point. How many parents have their baby girls ears pierced? Tattooing is not considered the same because of the stigma we attach to it. A common reason I hear for circumcision is so a boy “will be just like his dad,” an asinine rationale if I ever heard one. We shrug at one form of genital mutilation while being horrified at the barbarity of those who would practice it on their daughters. Make the rules clear cut regarding how much a parent is allowed to alter their child’s body and what constitutes abuse.
mbaker commented on Oct 03 09 at 4:48 pmI personally think children shouldn’t circumcised or tattooed. While I also think that piercing the ears of a baby is ridiculous, it doesn’t even compare to the above two procedures for two reasons:
1. The holes painlessly close up if you remove the earrings.
2. Ear piercing doesn’t have to hurt. My mother had my ears pierced at a doctor’s office as a 5th birthday present. The nurse was so successful at numbing the ears in advance that after she pierced the right ear I asked her when she was going to pierce it because I didn’t feel her do it.
jenny tries too hard commented on Oct 03 09 at 5:23 pmI’m with mbaker…parents are allowed to determine appearance of their babies to a point, but the line draws at permanent changes (which ear-piercing is not) made for nonmedical reasons. Either way, this jackass is still worse than ear-piercers or circumcisers. He made a permanent mark on a child who is old enough to feel and remember the pain and humiliation, and it is a mark that ties him to a culture of dysfunction and crime, rather than to a religion or to a family. I still think infant circumcission is usually wrong, and I didn’t pierce my daughters’ ears as infants…just a distinction.
jenny tries too hard commented on Oct 03 09 at 5:24 pmer, the “feel” in the feel and remember goes to feeling humiliation. Should have said that the kid was old enough to feel the humiliation of being held down, and old enough to remember the pain. I know infants feel pain.
Mistress_Scorpio commented on Oct 03 09 at 8:49 pmUnfortch for kids growing up in those environments, the gang ends up *being* family. But that’s besides the point. Is the tattoo wrong because of the pain of it’s application, or because it was a *gang* tat? Is it wrong *ever* to cause pain to a child for a cosmetic reason, because I can tell you, not all earring piercings are without pain. We can’t ask babies if they are numb enough. I know a child with a heart disorder who got circ’d at 8 years old because he got one bladder infection. He had to go off his anticoagulant meds for the surgery and had a debilitating stroke as a result. Should his parents get prosecuted? Yes, I’ve gotten way off track. I guess my point is that are we judging because of the kind of tat it was or the fact that it was a tattoo?
jenny tries too hard commented on Oct 03 09 at 9:20 pmI think it makes it worse that it ties the child to a gang, yes, though any tattoo forcibly applied to a child would be worse than a non-medical circumcission. The fact that it was a gang tat (which is in no way comparable to the significance of a Jewish or Muslim circumcission–those at least encourage adherance to the law, which is the opposite of what a gang tattoo symbolizes) is just another aggravating circumstance, IMHO. Oh, and in the unfortunate event that the boy followed in his father’s footsteps and became a criminal, a gang tattoo would make him a target for some in jail/prison, which is not true of a circumcission. So yeah, I am kind of judging his crime with the consideration of the kind of tat it was, and the intent it indicates.
Hugh7 commented on Oct 05 09 at 12:06 amRather ironically, the father claims the boy said “I want to look like you” and didn’t have to be held down. No baby and very, very few boys ever ask to be circumcised “to look like their fathers” even though that is a common excuse for doing it it. (Not many babies get STDs, either.) Clearly, circumcision is worse, and it’s about time the double standard was ended.
JorgeM commented on Oct 06 09 at 5:00 pmI’d much rather have a gang tattoo than a circumcision. A tattoo is harmless and removable. Circumcision is painful and destroys sexual sensitivity.
JLM commented on Oct 14 09 at 4:00 pmComments
I completely disagree with the tattooing however I am appreciating the debate that it is bringing to the general public about infant circumcision. It is a very comparable situation and maybe it will make some stop and think a little deeper about the life long effects circumcision has on their sons.
Mike Smith commented on Feb 01 10 at 10:56 amAs is clear with the name, Gangsta tattoo is related with marks to show off specific gangs. Gangsta tattoos are associated to persons staying in prisons or to persons who, just for the sake of fun to outnumber themselves of the common societal norms.
mysticeye commented on Apr 06 10 at 11:06 pmTattooing doesn’t remove an organ with multiple unique functions. Tattooing doesn’t increase the odds that the child with have erectile difficulties in the future, or be unable to bring his female partner to orgasm through intercourse.
A 7 year old can indicate that they are in pain and receive adequate “post op” pain relief. A 7 year old can take almost all antibiotics and therefore be safer from “post op” infections. Rates of MRSA from circumcision in hospital are probably higher than would be tolerated from a tattoo parlour (though in this case the tattoo was done “at home”)
Tattooing has never caused anyone to lose their penis and possibly go through sexual reassignment surgery.
Tattooing as an entering “man hood” ritual is also cultural and religious and ergo if we tolerate male circumcision for that reason than we must also tolerate tattooing
mysticeye commented on Apr 06 10 at 11:10 pmHowever I must add I think this particular “father” because of the meaning behind this particular tattoo should rot in hell. I also believe that ANY cosmetic surgery on a child should be illegal including male circumcision, female circumcision, tattooing, capping teeth (for cosmetic reasons) etc
Kate commented on Mar 12 11 at 11:59 amLet people raise their own damn kids. If this symbol was anything other than a gang tattoo (say, a tribal marking common to an ethnic group), people would not be up in arms. I’m going to circumcise any boys that I have, and I resent all of you people screaming about it. Back off.
Kate commented on Mar 12 11 at 12:06 pmOh yeah, I’m also going to vaccinate to help protect YOUR kids, which a lot of you are going to “opt out” of so as not to “risk” your own infinitely precious offspring. (Except by allowing them to risk contracting a deadly disease, of course). A foreskin is a nasty, disease carrying, piece of skin that NO ONE can show either increases or decreases sexual pleasure or erectile dysfunction! Every man I have reason to know, know is circumcised – no horror stories, no infections, no dysfunction, love sex and are able to give and receive pleasure just fine. PLEASE, give me a break. “It should be illegal!” No, what should be illegal is your unending capability for judgment and ignorance.
Brigette commented on Sep 07 11 at 2:15 amWho came up with the theory that un-circumcised males are more likely to give women orgasms? The only men to make me orgasm have been circumcised.
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