babble » blogs » Strollerderby
Strollerderby
Dateline Takes on Autism and Vaccines
I caught part of an interesting piece on Dateline NBC last night. Unfortunately the full segment isn’t online, at least not where I can find it. But maybe they’ll air it again. Still, there is some material available on Dateline’s web site.
My take on what I saw was that this is a very serious issue that for many people has become an either-or issue. Either you believe vaccines cause autism or you don’t. Dr. Paul Offit is a horrible man who has made millions of dollars from a vaccine that he created, therefore he can’t possibly be a credible source when it comes to a link between vaccines and autism. Dr. Andrew Wakefield is nothing but a quack and a crazy person, therefore none of his ideas are valid. When an issue becomes this divisive, it becomes much more difficult to see if either side has anything important to add to the discussion of such an important topic. (Kind of like, oh I don’t know, a national health care plan.)
Here a few things I found interesting in the MSNBC piece. Again, the video that I saw isn’t available online, so this is from memory.
- The charge that Dr. Andrew Wakefield is offering something very seductive to parents of children with autism is valid. That doesn’t mean that he isn’t offering anything of use. I don’t know if he is or not. But Dr. Offit makes a good point in the Dateline piece when he says that parents looking for answers will be drawn to Dr. Wakefield rather than the medical establishment, because Wakefield is at least putting out a strong opinion on why their children are suffering.
- Wakefield creeps me out. I know, maybe that’s unfair. Just my opinion. Something about the eyes and the way people flock to him to have their picture taken. (This is in the video.)
- A doctor that Wakefield works with is Dr. Arthur Krigsman. He and Wakefield believe that a condition called “Autistic enterocolitis” is responsible for many cases of autistm. They actually had me partly convinced until they mentioned colon cleansing, which I generally find is espoused by folks of questionable credentials. Again, just my opinion. Still, the notion of gastrointestinal issues being linked to autism is an interesting idea. Why not explore it further? At the same time, when Krigsman and Wakefield say that children with autism are “better” after having their colons cleaned out and a change of diet, I have to wonder if that’s because their “autism” is “cured” of if they’re just happier because they’re eating better food. I’m not autistic but I feel better when I eat healthy stuff. (Never had my colon cleaned out, though.)
- Towards the end of the piece, Matt Lauer visits other doctors and shows them conducting research on the brains of babies, trying to pinpoint when autistic symptoms start to appear. (Not a new idea, apparently.) This looked like very relevant and level-headed research. In other words, it wasn’t a “movement” being led by a “personality.” It was just, you know, medical research.
- Anyone who says that Dr. Offit’s comments are motivated by money because he created a vaccine needs to explain to me how Jenny McCarthy hasn’t benefited from her austism activism. It was announced in May that Oprah Winfrey’s Harpo Productions will produce a talk show starring McCarthy. Does anyone believe that this would have happened before she went on her campaign? I want to be clear: I am not saying that Jenny McCarthy became an activist for autism in order to get a television show. But Dr. Offit is not going to make any more or less money by taking a position on autism and vaccines. The only extra money he could make would be from his book. (CORRECTION: According to multiple sources, I am told that Dr. Offit donates any money from the sale of his book to autism research.) But Jenny McCarthy also wrote a book. It’s a pointless argument. It would be better to discredit what Offit says based on what he says, not speculation about why he is saying it.
That was more than I planned to write but there it is. Basically my point is that this is a serious topic that deserves a more serious debate than I think it is getting. Everything isn’t one thing or another thing. Sometimes both sides are right. And wrong.
Here is a small part of the story that aired. Hopefully it will be on again. (Click here if/when the embeded video won’t play.)
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Source: MSNBC
Go Back To Strollerderby
0 Comments
Leila commented on Aug 31 09 at 4:41 pmDr. Wakefield’s ideas have been tested by other reputable scientists, and all of those studies disproved his theories. This can be put to rest.
Laure68 commented on Aug 31 09 at 4:51 pmNice take on this. A couple of things I’d like to add.
You say that either people believe vaccines cause autism or they don’t. I personally “believe” vaccines do not cause autism based on scientific evidence. The anti-vaccine movement has a religious-like belief that vaccines cause autism despite the scientific evidence.
Great comment about Jenny M. making money. Dr. Offit received a lump sum for his vaccine. He will not make more or less money no matter how much is sold. Like you said, this is a bad reason to dismiss the data anyway. A better reason would be if the data could not be reproduced. This is the case with Dr. Wakefield’s data. He actually had a huge conflict of interest with his study. However, this is not the reason why his study was poor. It was a small study, and the results have not been able to be reproduced.
In general, the biggest problem I have with groups like Generation Rescue (Jenny M’s group) is that they claim that the medical establishment is hiding “the truth”, but practically everything they say is either a manipulation of data or a flat-out lie. This reminds me of when Stephen Colbert (humourously) says he loves “the truth” but that he hates “facts”.
Laure68 commented on Aug 31 09 at 5:56 pmOK, I do want to add one more thing. One problem scientists have is that sometimes we can come across as a little, let’s say, boring. Really, someone spewing off scientific data doesn’t pull at heartstrings like more emotional, anecdotal stories. Groups like Generation Rescue have done a great job at making scientists and doctors look like the bad guys. Actually, they have a website called Fourteen Studies, which looks at (you guessed it) 14 studies that could not show a vaccine-autism link and they “critique” these studies. I won’t even go into how unscientific and biased these critiques were, but the best part is that there is a section titled “Good Guys/Bad Guys”. Basically, they are the good guys. Among the list of “bad guys” is the American Academy of Pediatrics. The main reason being that Pediatrics, the journal of the AAP, published 50% of these “Fourteen Studies” that they found so distasteful. When you set up a story like an old Western, with good guys and bad guys, some dorky scientist doesn’t have a chance.
Kiki commented on Aug 31 09 at 7:35 pmI talked with my pro-vaccine pediatrician about this, and she had a very logical comment: there is almost no way to prove a link or disprove a link. It would be way too difficult of a study to undertake and maybe impossible to really conclude. One hard thing about studies is who pays for them–there are definitely advantages to the big pharmaceuticals to disprove a link. There may be a religious-type of belief attached to some people who believe vaccines are linked, but most don’t have anything to gain. (Other than Jenny McCarthy.) That doesn’t mean they’re right either. I’ve heard that some have suggested that the mercury in vaccines has caused effects similar to autism–mercury poisoning and autism have similar symptoms. All in all, I think it’s a convoluded issue that is not going to be quickly or easily cleared up. I also am not totally paranoid or about conspiracies, but I think everyone (dateline producers included) has an agenda and that can affect how groups are portrayed, tests are conducted, etc. I think it’s really hard to trust any one person or group about this, which sucks. I don’t know what to believe.
Comstock commented on Aug 31 09 at 8:01 pmUh, vaccines either cause autism or they don’t. That’s reality, not an extremist’s position. Reality is either-or in this case. Can you seriously argue for some sort of “middle ground?” (My personal take is that no scientific evidence support the anti-vax position.)
Comstock commented on Aug 31 09 at 8:06 pmKiki: links are very easy to prove. Either the data support the assertion or they don’t. Disproving links is the hard part, hence the situation we find ourselves in today.
Brett Singer commented on Aug 31 09 at 8:10 pm@Comstock – I’m not a scientist but it seems possible that something could be a trigger in a child who already has a predisposition for a condition. That’s not to say that I “agree” with the notion that vaccines “cause autism.” But that’s an example, albeit a simple one, of what I mean by a middle ground.
gpgirl commented on Aug 31 09 at 8:14 pmKiki, it is true that, in science, you can never prove 100% that something (like a link) does not exist. I read a great analogy the other day – I could say I have an invisible purple unicorn in my garage. You could never 100% prove I was wrong. All you could do was say there was no evidence of this creature.
It is the same with the vaccine-autism link. There have been many studies, and still no link has been shown. Some anti-vaccine groups say they won’t be satisfied until someone can say with 100% certainty that vaccines do not cause autism. This is impossible, so this argument will never end, no matter the evidence provided.
Also, mercury (thimerosal) was taken out of pediatric vaccines in the US in 2001. (In some states it is still in the flu vaccine, but I know not here in California.) However, the autism rate continues to rise. This is the ultimate evidence that thimerosal does not cause autism. (As close to 100% as you can get.) However, people still complain about the mercury in vaccines that no longer exists.
Large studies, even those sponsored by pharmaceutical companies, have to be peer reviewed. Also, if someone is suspicious of the data, it can be reviewed after publication. As Brett said, the fact that the study was paid by someone does not by itself make it a bad study. It may cause someone to review it.
Vaccine manufacturers are heavily regulated. Anti-vaccine groups are not. Sometimes it blows my mind what they publish on their sites. If a pharma company tried something like that, they would be shut down in a minute.
Citizen Mom commented on Aug 31 09 at 9:30 pmWhat frustrates me, a mother of an autistic son, is the focus of this debate at the expense of discussion of treatment. I too only saw part of the show, but every article I read in magazines and newspapers devote only a few lines to what can and should be done about treating ASD. I would love to see an hour-long show about ABA, floortime, Miller method, and other therapies. All we ever get is controversy and spectacle. Jenny McCarthy rarely talks about the behavioral therapy she did with her son.
Go ahead and conduct research (which by the way costs taxpayer money, if it’s to be ethical) theories about causes, but in the meantime, let’s get information out there that will actually help families who are dealing with this every minute of every hour of every day.
Brett Singer commented on Aug 31 09 at 9:41 pm@Citizen Mom, That’s a terrific point, I appreciate your bringing it up. I visited an autism treatment center while in college and it was quite an experience. I’m not able to do it justice in this comment but what I saw there, in terms of the variety of patients and the different methods of treating each of them, was extraordinary.
Citizen Mom commented on Aug 31 09 at 10:04 pmComments
@brett, yes, and the cost of those therapies is overwhelming. Figuring out how to pay for it all would be worth TV mini-series. I would love to share our insurance odyssey with Dateline. I could use puppets to make CPT codes more entertaining.
Steph commented on Sep 01 09 at 12:15 amThe thought of not vaccinating a child does not make sense. Even if there is a small risk of Autism. There are bigger and further reaching risks to our children and general population if otherwise controllable diseases are allowed to spread through not vaccinating our children.
Ticktock commented on Sep 01 09 at 9:19 amThe profits from Paul Offit’s book go to autism research. The notion that he is making money from “Autism’s False Prophets” should be corrected in the original article.
Leila commented on Sep 01 09 at 1:06 pmI see many stories about autism treatments, but they also tend to be simplified and sensationalized. Meanwhile there are autistic people everywhere with all levels of severety and cognition, while most of society does not know how to recognize the manifestations of autism. Awareness should be promoted through TV shows, documentaries and stories that showed different autistic people going about their daily lives, in the classrooms etc. Teachers should also prepare and study on this issue because more and more autistic children are being mainstreamed.
Rosana commented on Sep 01 09 at 5:00 pmMainstreamed is the main word Leila. My sister will graduate next year with two bachelors degrees and a certification, just so she can teach children with autistic spectrums. It was a long journey but it takes that much to be truly ready to teach them because currently they are being mostly schooled by special education teachers that are not specialized on autism therefore does not have the ability to recognize the best way for each child to learn (since they do not act or learn the same way) and end up being, like you said, mainstreamed.
Arthur Allen commented on Sep 02 09 at 2:01 pmComments
This blogpost is very sensible as is the discussion that follows it. My two cents, as a journalist who has followed the controversy from its inception: Science can not prove that any individual autistic child was not made that way by a vaccine–unless there’s strong evidence of some other cause. But science can and has shown that children vaccinated with vaccines containing trace amounts of mercury, or the MMR vaccine, are no more likely than other children to become autistic. The data is in on this question and it’s pretty indisputable. There was a time when there were plausible if improbable theories that MMR-provoked leaky gut syndrome leading to autism, or that thimerosal-provoked encephalitis led to autism. Those theories have been disproven by numerous studies. Could the pathophysiology constructed in these theories actually occur in rare instances? Perhaps. But they would be rare. THe hundreds and even thousands of people who attend conferences at which people like Andrew Wakefield speak are deluding themselves to think that his cures, which are based on a disproven theory, will work.
Jill commented on Aug 16 10 at 2:24 amI am totally against vaccinations so let that be VERY clear, HOWEVER, if parents want to vaccinate their child, I would beg the parents on my knees just to wait to vaccinate UNTIL their child can SPEAK. That way IF there is an adverse reaction to the vaccine, the child can talk to them and tell them what hurts,… stomach, head, etc. AND that will give the parents the time they need to get to know their child & what is normal behavior & what is not for the child. They will know for sure if the vaccines have hurt their child & doctors will too. Giving infants & toddlers vaccinations almost borders on child abuse when the child cannot even give its side of the story or verbal reactions to the vaccines. It’s all about fear to sell vaccinations. Improved sanitary conditions have been the most important to fighting diseases, NOT vaccinations.
Add your take:
Note: Babble is a supportive, diverse community. We encourage a range of opinions,
but any unduly hostile comments will be removed.
Comments are delayed up to 15 minutes






Joslyn Gray
Amber Doty
Julianna Miner
Monica Bielanko
Sierra Black
Meredith Carroll
Carolyn Castiglia
Sunny Chanel
Madeline Holler
Wendy Michaels
Rebecca Odes
Danielle Smith
Danielle Sullivan
Katherine Stone
The Walt Disney Company supports Babble as a platform dedicated to honest, engaged, informed, intelligent and open conversation about parenting. However, the opinions expressed on this site are those of individual parents/writers and do not reflect the views of Disney. In addition, content provided on this site is for entertainment or informational purposes only and should not be construed as medical advice, diagnosis, treatment, or safety advice.

0