Should Speaking English be a Requirement for Moms?

Deport her. She is here illegally.

I can’t make a judgement on whether or not she should have been able to keep her baby. I don’t know the details of this case. On the surface, it seems extreme, but again I don’t know all the info.

However, I can’t agree that an interpreter needs to be provided for every language. The only real comparison I have in France, where my family is from. They never provide an interpreter, even for the more common languages (English, Arabic, etc.). It is felt that it is up to the person to either speak French or provide an interpreter themselves. (Of course, one can see how badly the poorer immigrants are treated, also.)

I can’t think of any country that goes as far as the US (providing interpreters, ESL in public schools, etc.). I think this is a good thing, and am proud of the US for this. But how can we provide an interpreter for every single language? And isn’t there some responsibility on the immigrant to learn some basic English to get by? I cringe writing this because I know it sounds heartless, but I do think we sometimes treat people like children. Also, by letting people get by without learning English, we keep them at a lower socio-economic level.

Thankfully the country is recognizing the contribution of the immigrant population and moving more and more towards legalization. Sean Hannity and his minions notwithstanding.

I say GENTLY deport mother and baby. A baby should not be taken from its mother. There are ways they could have “tested” to see if she cared about the baby, like did she cry and freak out when they tried to take it? Or, was she indifferent. I think the sanctity of a mother-child relationship trumps alot. However, I also recognize that we can’t support every person who comes over here illegally and has a kid.So, send them both back, but in a non-abusive way? It’s a tough one.

TEST to see if the mother cared about the baby? We’ve really dehumanized immigrants that much in this country? GP, I completely get where you’re coming from with the rest of your statement, but realize that your suggestion of testing the mother to see it’s reaction when you take it’s baby away is horrifying.

M_S and GP - I assume that GP was talking about the fact that supposedly the woman in question was going to give the baby up for adoption, but if she wasn’t able to communicate that without a translator, there had to be some other way to verify this.

All said and done, the whole thing stinks to holy heck.

And you assume she is a prostitute with no plans to care for the baby, who was probably going to sell the child. What makes your assumptions any more likely to be true?

The only thing I presume to know is that this mother is a human being and deserves to be treated as such.

I finally read the article from the Clarion-Ledger. In it, DHS states clearly that not understanding English is NOT a cause for removing a child from its parent, but after investigation they decided that the baby needed to be removed anyway. (They would not provide details, which I can understand.) There is obviously something going on that we can’t know about.

And again, I can’t agree with statements, such as Mistress_Scorpios, that we dehumanize immigrants in “this country”. We still treat immigrants much better here than than most other countries would. Canada may be one exception, but do they provide interpreters in every single language?

I really do understand the contribution that immigrants make to our economy. There are plenty of jobs that Americans would never take, even some paying above minimum wage. (I was talking to a store owner who had a job open at $15 an hour, and still could not find someone to fill it and actually show up on time, do all aspects of the job, etc., while in the past he hired illegals who worked their butts off.
However, why do we feel we need to be responsible for so much, such as providing interpreters in rare languages.

The article says she had no clothes, crib or bottles for the baby - but did she have a carseat? Many hospitals will not allow anyone, regardless of race or residency, remove an infant from the hospital without a carseat. Not being able to speak the language, or locate a translator for a perhaps obscure language would not absolve someone from being required to use a carseat. I’ve even heard of hospitals who insist on checking to make sure your carseat is properly installed before allowing you to take the baby home. Even if you don’t have a car and are leaving in a cab.

Immigration aside, since when is it okay to take away a person’s child without being even communicating to them why you are doing it, and how they can get things right again? This is frighteningly similar to the Elian Gonzales shennanigans. If she is being deported, that baby should go with her. It’s the only right thing to do.

I am with Erin, I can’t believe the heartless comments here. It really does feel like commentary from Fox News.

Good god, Erin, seriously? Perhaps if the Native Americans had gotten the settlers some paperwork, the settlers could’ve been “technically” admitted to the Americas. In all seriousness, some horrible things happened to Native Americans and there are almost certainly things that can be done today to rectify the situation, at least a little bit. But this is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone imply that somehow Native Americans (who were not a united people) should’ve banded together up and down the coasts and across the plains and put together a contract that would’ve held up in their (non-existent) courts and European courts. I don’t ever say this to people, but this time I’ll make an exception: That’s a dumbass thing to say.

Amen to laure68. Humanizing illegal immigrants doesn’t mean treating them better than we treat our own; and criticizing illegal immigration doesn’t mean that one doesn’t recognize the fact that illegals do in fact add something to our society and economy. The question seems to be, do they give more than they take, or vice versa, and what can be done about it? These are reasonable questions.

Hmmm…perhaps my statements could use some dumbing down. ChiLaura, not once did I imply that the Native Americans should have gotten the settlers paperwork. You clearly missed my point. As an aside, I like how you refer to them as “settlers” and not illegal immigrants. That’s cute.

Also, Laure68, let me help you understand the usage of quotation marks, they do not only need to be used in response to what was said in the article and/or comments. Quotation marks can be used to signify words, which are not your own. I can guarantee most of us have heard illegal immigrants called worse. I know, I get mistaken for one quite a bit.

Erin, yes I understand the use of quotation marks. (Could you be more condescending.) But also, in your post, you were referring to other comments, of which I could not find any that said anything near what you quoted, in words or in concept. If you wanted to quote a concept from something you heard outside this blog, you did not make that clear. (I’m not sure why you would want to do this, as you were supposedly responding to comments made here.)

Of course it’s too much to ask that a hospital provide an interpreter for every possible language. But to assume the child is in danger because the mother doesn’t speak English is just as extreme, wouldn’t ya say? Erin, I totally got ChiLaura’s “settlers” vs. “illegal immigrants.” Manifest destiny, ain’t it grand! Bringing culture to the natives!!

And Laur68, yes, I lumped you with the other Fox Newsers. My bad. I hope you feel as strongly about the language when the predominant language becomes Spanish… Hispanics are quickly becoming the majority in this country! Wepa!!!

OK. You’re right. You are intellectually and morally superior to me, I am sure of it.

Oh, one more thing and then I’ll shut up already. Mistress_Scorpio, you said “Of course it’s too much to ask that a hospital provide an interpreter for every possible language”, but, in this blog entry, the author suggests just this, and this was the only thing I was originally making a comment on. I do think it sounds extreme to take the baby away,.

I don’t know what this woman’s circumstances were. Perhaps the hospital should have done more to find someone to translate before taking her baby away. I agree that any hospital cannot afford to keep a translator on staff, but to find someone who they can get down to the bottom of things….There are things we just don’t know. So why assume?? She could have been a prostitute or not, or wanted to give the baby up, or not. I do have a problem with illegal immigration–not with the people themselves. I can understand why they do what they do to get here. But in the end, they are breaking the law. There are people who are doing things legally and going through mounds of paperwork, taking tests and waiting in line to become citizens of this country. How is this “fair” to them? And I have someone willing to do almost any work for a job. My 20 year-old high functioning autistic son and his friends–one is Downs and the other is also on the spectrum. No one will hire them or give them a chance. Funds to help this entire “class” of people are low (my son and his friends are considered “on the bubble” for receiving help via job training and coaching–almost too smart for their own good, yet not advanced enough to not need help). Some could even make an argument that the money used to pay for non-citizen health care and services (see how pc I’m being…) could be used to help a citizen like my child. Or is he somehow NOT worthy because you know, he wasn’t born in another country poor and without a chance to make it. Because while he isn’t now, he will be after my husband and I die….So I am saying what Mistress Scorpio is accusing some of you of saying. There are illegal immigrants who are getting more of a “break” than my son and his buddies who were born here. The “there are people who won’t do that job” fight is pure bullsh*t. And I don’t blame the illegals one bit because if I had a chance, I’d probably take it too. But as far as knowing everything there is to know about this case, we don’t, so let’s stop assuming we do–from her wanting to breastfeed to her being a prostitute…

Sheri, I’m truly sorry about the fact that your son is having a rough time finding work. (Many people are having that problem these days, it seems.) I’ve long believed the Americans with Disabilities Act needs to be strengthened and enforced more vigorously. That said, you could make the argument that any government dollars that are being spent on *anything* are taking funding away from programs that can help your son. The past eight years have done a lot to deplete funding that would go towards programs that would help your son and others in a variety of situations. Constantly blaming the “illegals” and reinforcing the message that they are getting the break that your son and his friends rightly deserve does nothing but confer an attitude of victimhood and resentment… neither of which will serve these young people in their journey into the workplace. I do sincerely wish them luck.

There’s a big difference between someone with autism and an illegal immigrant. The austistic individual isn’t breaking the law; the illegal immigrant is.

Deport them all.

I’m saying that this country was all “Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,” UNTIL it was a certain kind of immigrant coming to our country. I’m glad that you don’t think all immigrants should be hunted down and deported, ChiLaura. And you make a very good argument… citizens are the priority, as well they should be. And perhaps I am conflating individual compassion with the state and what they should or can be capable of. At the very least, I want my country to give everyone the consideration due each of us as human beings, but maybe I am asking too much.

Does rule of law mean nothing to you people who would harbor illegal immigrants here with no consequences? Once you have no rule of law, it’s really all down hill from there.

M_S: At least we can agree on something, i.e. that the state must protect its citizens first; for a nation, maybe “compassion” appears somewhere down the list, I just don’t think that it can or should be a priority. Kudos to you, by the way, for your very active compassion. So many lives could be touched if people would follow your example. My parents did the same thing, setting a model for me and my sister, and I hope to continue this someday (time and space are not so conducive to it right now!).

I also hear you somewhat on the “UNTIL it was a certain kind of immigrant coming to our country” comment. However, I have to wonder about the historical accuracy of this. It seems to me that so much depended on the times. I mean, the Irish were treated terribly here, even though they were white (yet somehow considered “black” and spoke English). There have historically been “English first” movements throughout the US; it’s nothing new. I tend to think that so much depends on the economy and spatial concerns. At least a few immigrants “back in the day” settled the West, so in a way they were out of the way of wealthy city dwellers who might’ve been concerned about the foreign-language-speaking, darker-skinned immigrants showing up on their shores. Whether or not there is in fact more actual proximity of majority whites to darker-skinned people today is perhaps debatable (NYC, for example, had plenty of immigrants throughout its history, it’s not as if it were a white haven), but I think that technology and our constant “in-touch-ness” today at least make the issue seem much more pressing than it may in fact be. Am I making any sense? Too many nights of too little sleep, and I should really be doing something else right now.

Regardless of what I think that the state should do with this woman and her child (I didn’t read the linked story yet), I do think that it seems extreme to separate a 2 day old from her mother, AND I do hope that the individual city and state workers who came into contact with Cruz actually treated her with respect. Even if I don’t agree with what someone is doing — immigrating here illegally in this case — I can still hope that people used respectful voices with her and didn’t generally treat her like shit. As I said before, the state’s treatment really has nothing to do with individual acts of compassion. It could very well be that a state could be “compassinate” (offering free health care, for example), but that the individual administrators of the state’s policy could look down on the people the state serves with condescension and scorn. Doesn’t this actually happen all over today? I’ve been in a WIC office before; it was not pretty.

Cali Mom, from the comments here alone, I would hardly say people are reaching out to immigrants with compassion. This country certainly has issues with race and many, many other prejudices, all of which must be stopped. We cannot choose which groups should receive more or less compassion. All races, creeds, ethnicities, sexual preferences, genders, etc. must be treated with compassion. That’s the beauty of it, it has no bounds.

Mistress Scorpio, Mumus, Manjari – my heart bleeds with yours and I am proud to be in your company.

I’m sure nobody is looking at this anymore, but I have one question for Erin just in case. I may have missed something (there are a lot of comments to go through), but I haven’t seen anybody say that this child needs to be taken away from the mother, and Lisa seems like the only person making strong comments against illegals. Again, I may have missed something, but reading your last post would give one the idea that most people commenting are completely without compassion. What about these comments (besides Lisa’s) bothers you so much? It seems like people are trying to have a discussion as to what to do in this situation.

I am asking because I do believe we need to have some kind of discussion as to what to do about illegal immigration in this country. I have met a lot of people who consider themselves much more compassionate than the general population, but don’t actually do anything to help a situation.

Guys, forget everything else and think legal here. Our Title VI of our Civil Rights Executive Order 13166 of 1964 GUARANTEES any one (LEGALLY PRESENT OR NOT) in any hospital that receives FEDERAL funding (example MEDICAID/MEDICARE/etc.) and/or any COURT/County,Youth,Chancery,City,Federal,etc. the right to be heard and to hear in that person’s NATIVE language. We know that it is virtually impossible for every entity to hire interpreters/translators in every language known to man, but… Terminating parental rights of a new born is a serious issue and merits some serious actions. The hospital messed up and so did the court by denying her the right to tell her story in her language. They had the mother’s cousin who is Bi-lingual in Spanish and Chatino but would not allow him to translate! How wrong is that?