I suspect the Duggers do not vaccinate against chickenpox as many people who are pro-life are opposed to the vaccine because they say cell lines derived from an aborted fetus were used in the development of the vaccine. Every article which makes this claim gives lots of detailed information, but they do not cite their sources, so it is hard to determine how accurate this information is (the CDC website that some provide as proof says nothing about Human Diploid Cells http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-1.pdf and the fact that all the sites say the same exact thing could just as easily mean they are all quoting the same original source, but that doesn’t mean the source is accurate).

My kids got ALL of their immunizations, right on time. AND, they all got the chicken pox three years later – and it was not “mild.” Also, when my 15 year old daughter went on a missions trip to Russia with our church, she contracted pertussis, brought it home, and (you guessed it)…all three siblings came down with it too. In fact, the only one who survived without so much as a cough was her 84 year old grandmother – who had pertusis as a teenager. Immunizations offer “protection” – but not 100%. Be sure your kids are as healthy as possible – great food, lots of exercise – because being as strong as possible is the key to fighting off the diseases they WILL be exposed to in the future.

Poison Ivy IS contagious.

The body does not respond to a vaccine the same way that it responds to the natural exposure of a disease. Vaccines do not offer a lifetime of protection. For some vaccines, the length of time they offer protection is not even known. And vaccines NEVER have a guarantee of any protection at all. This is why many people have opted not to get them anymore. I’m not saying it is right or wrong. There are also people who cannot get vaccines for health reasons. Some children are not vaccinated because older siblings had severe adverse reactions or death due to receiving vaccines. Don’t be so quick to judge.

Margie, You’re irresponsible and ignorant. Your crazy theories are just that. I wish your kids wouldn’t suffer for your cluelessness.

There is very tenuous, almost entirely unproven, evidence that vaccines may possibly have bad side effects very very occasionally. Most research that shows side effects has been debunked or withdrawn, and in particular there is no link to autism at all.
Vaccines aren’t perfect, but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks (if they even exist) by orders of magnitude. Sure, most people who get chicken pox are fine, but not all, and people who get polio are not.
Disease eradication depends on herd immunity. If almost everyone is immunized against a disease, then it can’t spread. The more people who aren’t immunized, the more likely it is to be able to infect even immunized people.
Get immunized. Don’t be one of the people who spreads deadly diseases around to those who are at risk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversy

Mercury is no longer used in vaccines. Though many scientists have tried, no one has been able to show any link between autism or Alzheimer’s and vaccines. Parents who say “my kid wasn’t vaccinated but didn’t get sick” are benefitting from the fact that most other kids are vaccinated, so there is no one to pass the disease on to the non-immune child. However if this anti-vaccine fad continues, the number of children who are immune might fall below the critical level (something like 85% for many diseases, I think) and the diseases will be able to spread again.

“Childhood diseaeses” like measles and whooping cough can be deadly for some children and adults, and can cause life-long disabilities for the children of pregnant women who are infected.

Before vaccines were widely available, many children did not live through childhood. Vaccines are one of the biggest reasons why life expectancies in the US have gone up so much in the past 100 years. Places without large-scale immunization still have much lower life expectancies, many more preventable disabilities, and many more grieving parents.

Please, vaccinate your children.

Let me start by saying that I honestly don’t know which side of the “to-vaccinate-or-not” fence I am officially on. I just want to say that Angela is lucky to have a very healthy child BUT there is no way to prove that it is because she didn’t vaccinate. My daughter has received all of her vaccinations without delay or anything and I am also lucky to have a very healthy child. Anytime she’s been sick it’s not been serious and she is over it in a flash. She is exposed to germs and occasionally eats off the floor (don’t judge me, i ate off the floor and survived!). I’m just saying sometimes we are quick to point to vaccines as reasons for things when it may merely be coincidental.

Robin,

Let’s deal with your straw man argument at the end there first. No one ever said vaccines are 100% safe. It is well known that there are potential side effects.

But these side effects are extremely rare, the potentially life threatening side effects occur in fewer than 1 in a million people. With such a rare occurrence, it can not be conclusively shown that these side effects are related to the vaccine at all. In a given population, you would expect to see these same ailments arise due to other causes almost as often. That’s what scientists refer to as failing to be statistically significant. (later on in my post I invite you to prove me wrong on this so please keep reading.)

The CDC however, along with other national and international health organizations, will always side with the precautionary principle and practice full disclosure, so you will find warnings about these potential side effects on their websites, along with published statistical data showing exactly what that risk is.

Given that potentially deadly or debilitating side effects are so rare, and that we can’t even be sure they are caused by the vaccines, it is a no brainer that any risk vs reward evaluation should land firmly on the side of vaccinating. If you drive a car or walk down the street, you are taking a MUCH bigger risk that you won’t make it home alive or in one piece.

Now, if we lose heard immunity for some of the most horrific of the diseases our vaccination program has wiped out, because people decide not to vaccinate their children, for whatever reason, we will lose many more people to disease, potentially millions more. Does this seam like a reasonable risk vs reward to you?

As far as your loosely linking auto-immune disease to vaccines (all you provided was a correlation, which does not equal causation), I’m pretty sure you are dead wrong about that.

You are right about something else though, I am not an expert in infectious disease. I am admittedly parroting what I’ve learned from thousands of blogs about science and infectious disease, and hundreds of podcasts I’ve listened too, all by Bona-fide experts in these areas. I’m guessing you don’t have an advanced degree that is relative to the field in question either, but feel free to fill us in with your education and published works should I happen to be wrong about that as well.

So here we have two non-experts, by that I mean two people who haven’t dedicated their lives to study and understanding of the subject at hand or have the relevant degrees and publishing history to show for it. One of us is in agreement with the overwhelming consensus of doctors and scientists worldwide, that vaccines are the most important advance in medical history if we are judging by their effect on mortality rates and the reduction of mass suffering due to disease, and that playing off of people’s fears, trying to convince them that the risks are higher than they actually are, is beyond irresponsible, The other one of us (you) quite frankly, is not.

Proving me wrong or making me look like a fool will not do you any good by the way, you must show why the consensus of doctors and scientists who strongly recommend full participation in public health programs including and especially vaccines, are wrong.

Now, all that being said, I’m open to being convinced that either the consensus is wrong, or that I’m misunderstanding where the consensus lies. If you can provide us with some published research that shows a reasonable causal link between auto-immune disease and vaccines, I might continue to listen. I’m not asking for hours of your time, just a reasonable effort to back up your claims.

Here’s what I require though so I won’t be accused of moving the goal posts. These studies must be published in reputable journals. They must meet the most rigorous scientific standards, and be conducted by experts with relevant expertise. I want letters after names. I need more than just one or two, if possible show me examples where the studies have been replicated.

This shouldn’t be hard to provide, as you seem to think you have a pretty good grasp of the research.

I await your reply but I won’t be able to reply until sometime tomorrow, so take your time, I’m in no hurry.

VACCINATION….DOES NOT = IMMUNIZATION. People need to realize that, and stop putting 100% faith into the system! People automatically equate “armored protection” after vaccination. Being an ER Nurse, nothing is further than the truth! Fully vaccinated people constantly get VPD….so much that the term “VPD” vaccine preventable disease….is extremely misleading, and should not be used.
My son had c pox and a booster. About 6 months after the booster, he had a full blown case(not mild) of the cpox. ~ If the medical establishment is going to insist on randomly injecting people/children …the least they can do check antibody levels…and see what kids are gaining immunity….or not , from!

Erik – I don’t do anyone’s research for them, because I don’t have time for that. Maybe if you researched both sides of the issue you would understand why there are so many people on each side. I used to be a huge supporter of vaccines and my kids got every vaccine that was available. Now I wish I had done my research prior to them getting vaccinated. I would still have gotten some of the vaccines for the more serious diseases, but I would have waited until my kids’ immune systems were more mature. They would not have gotten the hepatitis shot at birth. Research shows there are rarely any circumstances where a newborn actually needs that vaccine. I would also have had them done one vaccine at a time, instead of the mass immunization they do now at 2, 4, and 6 months of age. It is not an “overwhelming consensus” in favor of vaccines anymore. I am not an expert or a scientist, but I do have access to expert information. The problem is, you cannot go on medical doctors’ advice and opinions alone. They aren’t actually educated in how vaccines affect the body scientifically speaking. Medical doctors are about getting the desired results whether it be through vaccines, drugs, surgery, etc., not necessarily about understanding how it works, or how a problem started in the first place. Have you ever heard of immunology? Doctors and scientists that specialize in immunology? Check it out sometime. The autoimmune disease link is there and the evidence is getting stronger. Problem is, unless you research it, no one knows about it because government doesn’t want anyone messing with their system and the billion-dollar payoff they get for keeping it as is. Government doesn’t care about us, government cares about government. I found out that schools get paid for every student who is fully vaccinated, and are penalized and pay a fine for every student who is not. Sounds kind of fishy to me, but hey, I’m not really surprised. Personally I think that many doctors also receive those payoffs from vaccine and drug manufacturers, but that is just my opinion. Hey, I don’t care what your views are on vaccines. I’m not going to be offended. But I DO get offended when people blow off my views and my reasons for questioning the safety of them. Just saying…. you should consider all the reasons why our government is pushing them so hard. It’s not just about “herd immunity.”

Nowdays the diseases do not make me worry much, my biggest worry is that my child could catch one of those diseases from a non-vaccinated kid. It is unbelievable that people will use scientific information to validate some things and ignore scientific information to believe in other things like non-vaccination is safe.

Please be careful about the article Patrick posted. It is full of misinformation that is not cited. To check one of the claims made about chicken pox, I looked at the wikipedia page and it lists ~40 articles published in respectable journals. The claims the author of the article make are not backed up by a single citation. This might be one of the most dangerous articles I’ve ever read; abiding by it could cause serious injury or death.

That’s the difference, Robin. I would be convinced by the evidence (if it existed). What evidence would you need to change your mind?

You say, “ust a general belief that a large portion of people’s health problems and diseases are linked to vaccines. And yes, this belief was addressed in my research, and I found the information I was looking for, which is why I believe in it.” This shows me you were looking for one answer and found it. I would like to note here that ‘linked’ does not mean caused. I have never heard of one vaccine that caused a disease.
Your research should go beyond the internet. But that doesn’t mean talking directly to scientists. They all publish research. PubMed is a great place to go.
Regarding it being a personal choice. How can it be when it affects other people? If people who are able to get vaccinated don’t, it increases illness and death in people that can’t get vaccinated. These people would be babies too young to be vaccinated, the immunocompromised, and those allergic to components in vaccinations.
Why do you think there are too many vaccines too young? All vaccines do is exploit our immune systems. Unless you are raised in a sterile bubble, you come into more things every day that challenge your immune system than in the entire vaccine schedule your whole life.
I still do not understand what is UNREASONABLY unsafe about vaccines. Vaccines are safer than flying (in an airplane), swimming, driving a car, or riding a bike. Yet these are things we all do on a regular basis in our daily lives, or let our kids do. Sometimes even with people we don’t know but are qualified in their field. I’m sure you trust your kids’ bus driver or lifeguard and these people train a fraction of the time doctors and researchers do (for perspective, I was a lifeguard).
Everyone, when you’re reading things on the internet, look at the source and their credentials, as well as how many sources they cite. If an author cites primary research articles, chances are they are legit (but make sure the articles back the claims they are making). If an author’s citations are predominantly other websites (particularly if they author those websites as well, or if they website they link is selling something, and particularly if they are profiting from those sales) this should set off a red flag.
It’s great to have an open mind, just don’t have it so open your brain falls out. Look at things critically.

Thank you Rita…..and prayers for your son.

JM – LOL! You’re killing me! You mustn’t have understood anything I said or you would not have come back with such nonsense. MY brain is falling out from being too open minded?! REALLY???!!!

Robin, I am very offended. I never said your brain is falling out. That is a very popular phrase, and if you’ll notice, I didn’t specify anyone in that sentence. In fact, earlier I stated “Everyone…” and I intended everything thereafter to be addressed to everyone, not just you.

Could you please specify exactly what is nonsense? I am really just trying to figure you and others like you out.

Also, please read my comments more carefully. I take pains to understand what you are saying and reply to it directly without misquoting or misconstruing, and the respectful thing to do would be to return the favor. Please note I am countering your arguments, not attacking you personally.
Once again, I ask you to please specify what of my statement is nonsense, and please answer my questions. I would do the same for you.

What are my silly comparisons?
Where are my questions answered?
I am disagreeing with you, and asking you to explain yourself so maybe we can find some common ground. If you see that as being argumentative, that’s your problem. I haven’t bullied you, but you have evaded answering my questions in this entire thread. Asking for an answer to an innocent question is not bullying. It’s fine if you want to voice your opinions and beliefs, just don’t expect all of us to sit back and accept that you know what you’re talking about. We haven’t read the same things as you or had the same experiences. Cite your sources and answer my questions, that’s all I’m asking.

You know, it’s interesting the stuff you’ll find on the ACTUAL inserts of these vaccines, such as the varicella vaccine from Merck:
————————————-
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/v/varivax/varivax_pi.pdf
———————————

Herpes Zoster
————
Overall, 9454 healthy children (12 months to 12 years of age) and 1648 adolescents and adults (13 years of age and older) have been vaccinated with VARIVAX in clinical trials. Eight cases of herpes zoster have been reported in children during 42,556 person years of follow-up in clinical trials, resulting in a calculated incidence of at least 18.8 cases per 100,000 person years.

@JM_SHEP – I had some comments and points to make, but you have made the same points, with better presentation; thank you.

@Robin – You’re correct: some people will never be convinced by evidence. That’s too bad, as evidence is still the best way we have of addressing these issues… and that’s why some of us spend our time actually doing the research, and presenting it… and perhaps more importantly, demonstrating ways to actually arrive at reasonable responses.

Sometime, we also try to counteract misleading statements with factual evidence: an example of this was me trying to address your initial blanket statement. Jen commented “…they’ve quarantined a child with poison ivy. Poison ivy is NOT contagious” to which you replied “Poison Ivy IS contagious.” In a medical sense, and in any sense requiring quarantined, it’s not. and if you had read my entire statement, you’ll note I did say it could be passed due to transferring the oil. However, anyone reading your simple statement would be likely to assume that someone displaying the symptoms of poison ivy could also “give it to them” through casual touch or contact. That’s simply not true, if they’re washed, or you touch some part of their body not contaminated by the oil.

Yep, the details matter – and when you make blanket statements, or decide that “…nothing could probably change my mind at this point because I have already been on both sides of the issue and done my own research.”, you’ve as much as admitted here that evidence no longer makes any difference. which is why some of us are trying to show people (if not you, then other people reading these comments) what a rational response it.

@Rita – “have you ever seen the number of VAERS reports filed?” Yes. In fact, I’ve sorted and read through a lot of them (it’s a well-put-together system from the standpoint of casual research). It’s a voluntary system with no detailed follow-up or fact checking: at best, it’s a heavily biased system to collect anecdotes of correlation, not evidence of causation. You mention “Vaccine injury is very real, and we do see it in the emergency room…that is for sure.” in that case, it should be fairly simple to measure the number of vaccine-related injuries to the number of folks receiving vaccines. In fact, people do that. That’s why you can detect when there is a problem, and address it (like a recall). That’s also the same data that allows a reasonable risk assessment to come to the conclusion that while vaccines are not 100% safe (neither are placebos of course by the VAERS standards), using them is DRAMATICALLY less risky than not using them.

I see no one has any arguments for “James” who is an expert. Hmmm…intimidated maybe?? As much as I would like to hear more from him, I suspect he will never post a comment on here again.

robin, James didn’t say anything worth replying to. He could be a homeless guy at the library killing time for all I know. I love how you conveniently take his word for it that he’s an expert because he might come to your aid but you doubt the worth of bona-fide credentials and published, peer reviewed science if it conflicts with your preconceived notions. Nice.

@Patrick – vaccines are not judged to be effective because of a single correlation. They are judged to be effective because of massive numbers of correlations, including situations where vaccination programs have been discontinued or reduced and epidemic diseases are seen to rise. Where vaccine programs are introduced on a country-by-country basis, and the infection rates fall significantly in each of these countries afterward. Because not only is there a known, very strong, correlation, but because there is a very well understood mechanism behind that correlation – one that has been tested in many, many ways. Because there are a lack of other correlations with infectious disease rates that are anything like as positive as vaccination programs. You may quote other bloggers all you want – poor evidence and poor logical technique are, well… still just as poor.

You also say “You can bet…” that “…ne of the main factors” in the increased incidence of certain conditions is due to a change in vaccination schedule. You could bet… but it would be a lousy way to determine anything like a cause (I’d note that between 1983 and 2008, the number of US households that have TV’s has also increased, as have the number of people using the internet… does this imply I should bet that internet use is “one of the main factors” driving up disease rates?

Furthermore, you maintain that these rates have gone up… when it’s not at all obvious that the incidences have gone up in many of these cases (Autism is an excellent example – while it appears there may be some increase in true rates, something like 80% of the apparent rise is due to changes in diagnostic criterion, loss of social stigma of the diagnosis, etc.). This has been reported in the peer-reviewed research, and seems fairly robust.

@Robin – James didn’t say anything substantial. He could maintain that UFOs landed yesterday at his house and it would have just as much verifiability (actually, more – such an event might lead to evidence, whereas in his brief statement he presents none). As others have said, when the evidence is provided, the evidence can be discussed. James didn’t do that (didn’t do that for the question in these comments, and didn’t do it for his assertion that he is an expert in these matters).

@Robin – “…after the first couple of sentences, I didn’t read any further”
Perhaps not. That’s perhaps a shame for you I guess, but as I said I might not have been writing all that just for you… but for people who are still open to listening.
“You obviously think that no one but yourself has anything substantial to say about the matter.”
If that was the case, I wouldn’t be holding a conversation here, or reading all of your responses. Nor would I open up my college lectures to a lot of discussions with the students. I learn an amazing amount from those dialogs – as I have from this one.

gahh I meant “Which tells us”, just woke up.

Hahaha….you guys are funny. Soooo, where is your evidence? Your research, your documentation? Where can it be found? Who is the author or scientist behind all of your information? For all of your talking down to people, you are hypocrites. You are no different than anyone else except that you like to present yourselves as self-educated experts on the subject to make people think you are smarter than they are. See, I’ve learned a thing or two about you too. This is no longer about vaccines for you, it is about getting the last word in. You have no proof and if you were face to face with experts presenting their research you would still not believe any of it if it in any way was against your beliefs. Like I said, I could use some daily humor. So if you have the time on your hands just keep it coming.

PS- Don’t worry about taking up too much time. I’m an educator, and one of my passions is getting students to think critically. This is one of the things I do in my spare time as I prepare for classes, because every term I get several outrageous statements from students. Smart students – amazing, intelligent students. But students who have never encountered the scientific method, or really had to think about its consequences in their daily lives. That’s not in *any* way a failing on their part – but understanding how the world works (and how it doesn’t – like figuring out the relative accuracy of different sources of data) is something that really does take a significant amount of work.

I am a former legal assistant, now stay at home mom. I am married to an attorney; we both are accustomed to doing ‘research,’ because of our chosen professions. We have one child, a son, now age 17, who suffered with horrendous vaccine reactions, starting at birth, when he was given the Hepatitis B vaccine. I was tested for Hepatitis B, as all the mothers were at Denver’s Rose Medical Center, and my test was NEGATIVE. Yet, they still injected my very vulnerable newborn with this vaccine anyway. At the time, I was not aware I could have signed off on a waiver. The ONLY way one can contract Hepatitis B is through either intravenous drug use, shared needles and/or sexual intercourse. Thus far, I’ve yet to see any newborn baby fit into any of these criteria.

I am also Rh-negative and was thus, given the immunoglobulin shot, once during my pregnancy and once, afterwards. I was also given Penicillin during my pregnancy, ostensibly for an upper respiratory infection during my 1st Trimester. I was repeatedly told by my then physician, that the Penicillin would NOT harm my fetus.

It did, as did all the other things I was told, would NOT, impact my then fetus’s health. When Ryan, during his first week of life, suffered with a high temperature (extremely dangerous for a newborn), and when he suffered with severe jaundice, I was told by our pediatric staff they just didn’t know why Ryan suffered with either the high fever and/or with the jaundice. But after each round of baby vaccines, starting at 2 months, Ryan slipped further and further away from us. He would suffer with complete somnolence (excessive sleepiness) and oft times, would stare into space, exhibiting fairly quick eye-lid flutterings, which I later found out were petit mal seizures. After Ryan’s four month round of vaccines, he nearly died. He awakened from complete somnolence (within 12 hours of his shots), only to exhibit a high-pitched screaming of which we will never forget. After this episode, I asked our then pediatrician just what had happened to our son after these shots. He was blunt and clear. He stated, and I quote, “You can expect to see academic issues with Ryan starting at Kindergarten. He most likely will have learning disabilities.”

He did. Later on, much later on, Ryan was diagnosed as having severe dysgraphia (inability to process writing skills), higher order speech/language issues and a true inability to understand concepts behind math principles. My husband and I commenced with our vaccine research through the uses of public and/or medical libraries. To our horror, we discovered vaccines are NOT truly researched nor tested, according to the BASIC scientific methods taught to most of us in high school. True placebos and controls were not used by Big Pharma when they test THEIR OWN PRODUCTS before the mass marketing of vaccines. After twelve years’worth of research, I have come to learn much about our drug industry, how our vaccines are researched and tested, and then ‘mandated’ to the mass public, most of whom have quite literally absolutely NO IDEA as to what happens behind the scenes during the manufacturing process of these vaccines, all the way through to the pipeline, before they are finally mandated for our children and our general populous as a whole.

Please research Dr. Russell Blaylock’s commentaries and various interviews on vaccines. One can GOOGLE him and/or find him at Youtube. He is a Board Certified Neurosurgeon and has done research into vaccines using NOTHING but peer reviewed medical journals. Please also research Dr. Sherri Tenpenny’s commentaries and lectures as to vaccine safety issues. She, too, is a Board Certified physician and you can find her, as well, on Google and/or at Youtube. Dr. Boyd Haley, one of the world’s pre-eminent experts as to mercury toxicity, can be found in this manner, as well. He has given extensive interviews over at the Autism FAIR website. Dr. Mady Hornig, Dr. Stephanie Cave, and Dr. Lawrence Palevsky (Board Certified Pediatrician), are ALL great people to look up as to vaccine safety issues.

There are risks inherent in CONTRACTING disease and risks inherent via INJECTION. But the neuroscience behind vaccines as to how they impact the human immune system, is NOT taught to medical students in our medical institutions. They are taught absolutely NOTHNG as to the harmful ingredients contained within vaccines (through the manufacturing process), and they are NOT taught about the true side effects vaccine can and do cause, as well. The National Vaccine Information Center is a great source of information as to vaccine issues, issues with disease and natural immunity vs. ‘health’ by injection. If truth be told, communicable disease was on the wane far long before vaccines were ever introduced into the human population. Medical journals such as the Lancet have published articles detailing that sanitation methods, once improved, and better nutrition were far most likely the reason as to why diseases were on the wane amongst the general population. Vaccines have only been used in the general populous for 50 years. Years ago, our grandparents contracted the measles, chickenpox, the mumps, etc., and most all not only came through these diseases just fine, but they were conferred with natural immunity — lifelong immunity. Their bodies contracted these diseases through the body’s NATURAL ROUTE, via either the upper respiratory tract and/or through the gastrointestinal tract, NOT via a needle, injecting not only live viruses and/or bacterium, but mercury, aluminum, polysorbate 80 and other potentially harmful/toxic ingredients, into their bloodstreams.

A certain segment, in fact a rather large segment, of our population, has a much higher risk in having severe reactions to many of these vaccines, than do others. It is time our medical institutions and/our medical providers take good stock as to why our American children are so laden with chronic autoimmune disorders, such as juvenile diabetes, juvenile arthritis, ADD/ADHD, learning disabilities, etc., when just some 50 years ago, you just did not see this. One in every 6 children suffers with a learning disability; when I was in school, again, you didn’t see this. Have we traded, through FEAR OF DISEASE, a population just swimming with chronic illness, instead? IS FEAR propelling us to truly think and/or believe, that we can possibly eradicate ALL DISEASE from this planet? There are viruses all around us; we all breathe the viral borne particles and are exposed to thousands of viruses on a daily basis! There are no vaccines for the majority of these viruses and the human body was BUILT to be able to handle, VIA NATURAL PORTAL, these diseases when we are exposed to them. Vaccine ‘immunity’ wanes in most cases, within 2 to 5 years, hence the many boosters they require of our children. How many vaccines do we truly believe the human body can handle, until the human body’s immune system literally begins to attack itself? This is happening with so many of our chronically ill children and adults.

PLEASE — I beg all of you of whom have voiced your concern as to whether or not the Duggars vaccinate, to please do your own research into the Truth behind vaccine safety/efficacy issues.

My husband and I did. We, too, once fully and completely, believed that vaccination would somehow save our son from deadly diseases. Deadly diseases NOW that vaccines are out for some of them, but those same diseases years ago, say during the 1940′s, physicians told parents NOT TO WORRY ABOUT. Bed rest, proper nutrition and good old fashioned Mom’s care, did the trick. Now that these vaccines are out, it’s ‘oh my goodness, Johnnie’s going to DIE from the measles or die from the chicken pox,” if I don’t get these vaccines.

NOTHING could be further from the truth.

BY FAR, THIS IS THE BEST INTERVIEW I’ve ever heard as to vaccine safety and efficacy issues. Dr. Joe Mercola interviews Board Certified Pediatrician Dr. Lawrence Palevsky on this topic. This is an 8 part interview, I believe, but SO worth the effort/time in listening if you at all are concerned with your children’s health and that of your own and your family’s.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IgLj2If44

@Bayareamom – I’m sorry to hear about your experiences. As Robin mentioned, some of us tend to look to actual data and research, which you seem to have done. Thus I’m curious at some of your statements – the only one I inherently agree with is “NOTHING could be further from the truth”, but probably not in the way you intended it. You state for instance “The ONLY way one can contract Hepatitis B is through either intravenous drug use, shared needles and/or sexual intercourse.” It turns out about 30% of cases can not be traced to this, so it appears there is some transmission mode that’s not resolved as yet. In brief, some simple research shows your statement is factually incorrect. You mention: “I am also Rh-negative and was thus, given the immunoglobulin shot, once during my pregnancy and once, afterwards.” Evidence (lots of evidence) shows that this has no negative impact on the fetus… and amazing positive impact. I’m guessing your husband was Rh+, implying that the fetus had at least a 50% chance of also being Rh+, and any mixing of his blood into yours could have resulted in a significantly poor outcome (especially if you intended to have any further pregnancies). So this would seem to be a case of a procedure with no negative impact that has been seen in a large population, coupled with a very significant positive impact in a very significant percentage of the cases. In brief, some simple research shows this is at best irrelevant, and perhaps simply prejudicial to the discussion. You then mention “I was also given Penicillin during my pregnancy, ostensibly for an upper respiratory infection during my 1st Trimester.” Well, did you have an upper respiratory infection? Is there a reason to think the doctor would have given you penicillin ‘just for the heck of it’, or some other reason? It would seem this wasn’t for an ‘ostensible’ reason, but for a medically-supported reason. Looking at the studies that have been done, there is no indication in the literature of fetotoxicity or teratogenicity due to penicillin (although most of this research was not conducted on humans… for some very significant ethical reasons, if animal and serum-based studies tend to clear it). In brief, there’s no reason to think this is implicated in your son’s medical issues either. After this point you maintain ‘these effected his health’, without any evidence beyond anecdotal timing (and given the rapidity of developmental stages in early infancy, anecdotal timing, or even data-supported timing, is poor evidence). There’s a lot of similar persuasive, but unfortunately data-free content like this here in your post.
You mention a number of experts. I’d VERY STRONGLY agree that people should look them up on-line, but would suggest instead of a general Google for them (which will sort the list by link strength, not accuracy or factual content), that they search for them someplace like Science based Medicine blogs: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/
These are people who don’t even agree with a germ-based theory of disease (Sherri Tenpenny) or the idea of herd immunity (Russell Blaylock, with some pretty out-there explanations of why it always *looks like* herd immunity functions). In brief, they are spouting nonsense, and looking outside their own little circle of interlinked blogs will show that PDQ.
You continue mentioning things like “Years ago, our grandparents contracted the measles, chickenpox, the mumps, etc., and most all not only came through these diseases just fine, but they were conferred with natural immunity — lifelong immunity” which lead me to believe that you may have done *no* critical research at all in these fields. There are some things where immunity lasts longer than others… but not all are “lifelong”. And the phrase “…and most… came through [these diseases]” is an amazing stretch around the facts that our ancestors are indeed the ones that ‘came through’… because the dead left no descendants in many cases (especially childhood diseases). You mention “…just some 50 years ago, you just did not see this [the large numbers of things like ADHD, etc.].” True – because to a large part they were not understood or diagnosed. (ADHD as a diagnosis wasn’t even available 50 years ago… but historical studies of cohorts have shown that the apparent increase is due largely to a change in diagnosis, not prevalence). You mention “…the human body was BUILT to be able to handle, VIA NATURAL PORTAL, these diseases when we are exposed to them. ” Yep. And it doesn’t it extremely well. Except where it doesn’t, and you have infant mortality due to simple Pertussis, or iron lungs (remember those? Wonder why they aren’t as common nowadays) due to Polio. Keep in mind the natural state of affairs, (based on researching history) is massive infant mortality, with a notably-less-than-80-year lifespan. This may be due to the statistical fluctuations in the death statistics of several billion people… or it may, just may, be because medical science has worked out, the hard way, with enormous effort and costs, what works and what doesn’t.

The upshot? Vaccinations work. Perfectly? No. Without risk? No. Better than the large morbidity & mortality rates prior to their introduction? Heck YES.

…and as long as we’re putting out links… here’s a single link that address several of Bayareamom’s selected ‘expert’ individuals, and points out (with references, with links) some of the basic (& very very dangerous) misunderstandings that they are spreading:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=5734

Thank YOU Eric and Brian. I just hope we’re not talking to ourselves here…

Just as I predicted! Again, you claim everyone else’s research is not credible, but all of yours is and by golly nobody better say otherwise. You have argued and pushed your “I’m so much smarter than you” and “I know how to do research and you don’t” attitudes so hard that no one wanted to hear it anymore. Especially when you have the audacity to tell parents of children injured by vaccines that they are being irrational for no longer vaccinating. You have done exactly as I knew you would do and push people away. I just have to say, Thank You!

Hahaha….you’re never going to learn are you. You’re not upsetting me at all. It’s cute how you think I care what you think of me and my beliefs. No, I haven’t given up on the debate because I don’t have a leg to stand on. I have plenty of credible information. I’m not going to lose any sleep over whether or not you or anyone else believes it or not. I have confidence in it so as not to feel the need to keep ramming it down other people’s throats telling them that theirs is wrong. I don’t care what other people choose to do, vaccinate or not vaccinate. That’s THEIR business. However, you seem to like to make other people’s business YOUR business. You said “I think that’s about all I have to say on this thread.” I hope not. Because the more you write, the crazier people are going to think you are for getting so enraged.

or is this all just a joke to you? 8 babies have died in CA from pertussis this year, do you really think I’m doing this out of ego?

Yes, it is a life and death issue!

Yes, thousands of babies and children have ALSO been injured and died due to receiving vaccines, whether you want to believe it or not!

Ok, how about I tell you what to do and not do in your life simply because I think you are being delusional and in some way those actions could potentially harm someone else?? Take for example people who talk on cell phones and drive. Yes they have the right to do it (in most states), but it is dangerous. Nonetheless, we cannot make them stop. Much as we may want them to stop, we do not have the right to make them stop unless the law says so. Just because you have the right to vaccinate, or not vaccinate, does not mean it is the best thing to do. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SOMETHING DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS THE BEST THING, OR THE RIGHT THING, TO DO. There is a reason why we have the right to choose, this is why we live in America. If you don’t like it maybe you should go to a country that dictates everything that you do with your life so you don’t have to bicker with people about what they should and should not do anymore.

Again, PLEASE research science NOT FUNDED BY BIG PHARMA! People are so utterly naive when it comes to what actual research has been done as regards vaccines. There has been, until of late, missing gaps in medical teachings, as to how vaccines (and all their ingredients) impact the human immune system. Here are a few quotes about vaccines as a whole, by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, a former pediatrician, now deceased:

“There are significant risks associated with every immunization and numerous contraindictions that may make it dangerous for the shots to be given to your child….There is growing suspicion that immunization against relatively harmless childhood diseases may be responsible for the dramatic increase in autoimmune diseases since mass inoculations were introduced. These are fearful diseases such as cancer, leukemia, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig’s disease, lupus erthematosus, and the Guillain-Barre syndrome.” Dr Mendelsohn, M.D.

“Did you know that the whooping cough germ, Bacillus pertussis, when injected into animals, has long been known to lead to the secretion of insulin? In 1979, at the Fourth International Symposium on Pertussis, held in Bethesda, Maryland, it was shown that this same result occurs in those who have received pertussis vaccine. In their publication, “Adverse Reactions after Pertussis Vaccination,” Drs. W. Hennessen and U. Quast suggest, “It seemed of interest to examine these reactions in comparison with the hypoglycemia syndrome.. . .There was a close relation between the two.’ If your child has juvenile diabetes (a disease characterized by wide swings in blood sugar levels), ask your doctor if he has ever heard of this effect of whooping cough vaccine. Maybe it’s time to investigate whether the pertussis vaccine has anything to do with the rapidly rising number of people with juvenile diabetes, adult diabetes, and hypoglycemic all disorders of insulin metabolism.”—Dr Mendelsohn MD (the Peoples Doctor Vol 6 No10)

“Study after study has demonstrated that many women immunized against rubella as children lack evidence of immunity in blood tests given during their adolescent years. Other tests have shown a high vaccine failure rate in children given rubella, measles, and mumps shots, either separately or in combined form.”—Dr Mendelsohn

“Because routine immunizations that bring parents back for repeated office calls are the bread and butter of their specialty, pediatricians continue to defend them to the death. The question parents should be asking is: ‘Whose death?’” —–Robert Mendelsohn, MD

Also, please read here, at the below link, what Dr. Bob Sears has to state about the Tdap being advised for PREGNANT women in California (and he’s normally pro-vaccine):

http://www.ageofautism.com/vaccines/

I beg of you those folks who have not truly done INDEPENDENT research on vaccines, meaning commencing with research of which does NOT COME FROM pharma-based research. Research the likes of Dr. Boyd Haley, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, Dr. Lawrence Palevsky, Dr. Russell Blaylock, and Dr. Sherri Tenpenny.

Here is a link to Dr. Tenpenny’s website:

http://drtenpenny.com/default.aspx

Good luck to you all! I am not going to debate this topic; I know what I know. I’ve witnessed our now beautiful 17 year old son having horrendous vaccine reactions. My attorney husband and I wholeheartedly believed in vaccines prior to having our son. We had been taught, better yet — CONDITIONED — to believe that vaccination was the cornerstone to good health.

Nothing could be further from the Truth. Absolutely nothing.

Gosh, sorry…one more post re: the Simpsonwood Document (anyone here ever hear of this?):

Here is the link:

http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock.html;

SNIP: (synopsis/comments provided by Board Certified Neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock)

I was asked to write a paper on some of the newer mechanisms of vaccine damage to the nervous system, but in the interim I came across an incredible document that should blow the lid off the cover-up being engineered by the pharmaceutical companies in conjunction with powerful governmental agencies.

It all started when a friend of mind sent me a copy of a letter from Congressman David Weldon, M.D. to the director of the CDC, Dr Julie L. Gerberding, in which he alludes to a study by a Doctor Thomas Verstraeten, then representing the CDC, on the connection between infant exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccines and neurodevelopmental injury. In this shocking letter Congressman Weldon referrers to Dr. Verstraeten’s study which looked at the data from the Vaccine Safety Datalink and found a significant correlation between thimerosal exposure via vaccines and several neurodevelopmental disorders including tics, speech and language delays, and possibly to ADD.

Congressman Weldon questions the CDC director as to why, following this meeting, Dr. Verstraeten published his results, almost four years later, in the journal Pediatrics to show just the opposite, that is, that there was no correlation to any neurodevelopmental problems related to thimerosal exposure in infants. In this letter, Congressman Weldon refers to a report of the minutes of this meeting held in Georgia, which exposes some incredible statements by the “experts” making up this study group. The group’s purpose was to evaluate and discuss Dr. Verstraeten’s results and data and make recommendation that would eventually lead to possible alterations in the existing vaccine policy.

I contacted Congressman Weldon’s legislative assistant and he kindly sent me a complete copy of this report. Now, as usual in these cases, the government did not give up this report willingly, it required a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit to pry it loose. Having read the report twice and having carefully analyzed it; I can see why they did not want any outsiders to see it. It is a bombshell, as you shall see. In this analysis, I will not only describe and discuss this report, but also will frequently quote their words directly and supply the exact page number so others can see for themselves.

The official title of the meeting was the “Scientific Review of Vaccine Safety Datalink Information.” This conference, held on June 7-8, 2000 at Simpsonwood Retreat Center, Norcross, Georgia, assembled 51 scientists and physicians of which five represented vaccine manufacturers. These included Smith Kline Beecham, Merck, Wyeth, North American Vaccine and Aventis Pasteur.

During this conference, these scientists focused on the study of the Datalink material, whose main author was Dr. Thomas Verstraesten who identified himself as working at the National Immunization Program of the CDC. It was discovered by Congressman Weldon that Dr. Verstraeten left the CDC shortly after this conference to work for GlaxoSmithKline in Belgium which manufacturers vaccines, a recurring pattern that has been given the name a “revolving door” It is also interesting to note that GlaxoSmithKline was involved in several lawsuits over complications secondary to their vaccines.

To start off the meeting, Dr. Roger Bernier, Associate Director for Science in the National Immunization Program (CDC), related some pertinent history. He stated that Congressional action in 1997 required that the FDA review mercury being used in drugs and biologics (vaccines). In meeting this order, the FDA called for information from the manufacturers of vaccines and drugs. He notes that a group of European regulators and manufacturers met on April 1999 and noted the situation but made no recommendations or changes. In other words it was all for show.

At this point Dr. Bernier made an incredible statement (page 12). He said, “In the United States there was a growing recognition that cumulative exposure may exceed some of the guidelines.” By guidelines, he is referring to guidelines for mercury exposure safety levels set by several regulatory agencies. The three guidelines were set by the ATSDR, the FDA and the EPA. The most consistently violated safety guideline was that set by the EPA. He further explains that he is referring to children being exposed to thimerosal in vaccines.

Based on this realization that they were violating safety guidelines he says, this then “resulted in a joint statement of the Public Health Service (PHS) and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) in July of last year (1999), which stated that as a long term goal, it was desirable to remove mercury from vaccines because it was a potentially preventable source of exposure.”(Page 12)

As an aside, one has to wonder, where was the Public Health Service and American Academy of Pediatrics during all the years of mercury use in vaccines and why didn’t they know that, number one, they were exceeding regulatory safety levels and second, why weren’t they aware of the extensive literature showing deleterious effects on the developing nervous system of babies? As we shall see even these “experts” seem to be cloudy on the mercury literature.

And again, the diseases they claim in today’s time, will cause your baby to DIE, were not thought of as deadly diseases back in the years when vaccines were not in use. In fact, historical records show that diseases were on the wane BEFORE vaccines came into play, due to better nutrition and better sanitation methods. Diseases such as the chickenpox, measles, mumps, rubella, were diseases most every child HAD! Indeed, they were considered a right of passage; as a child, it was EXPECTED you would eventually, perhaps, contract these diseases. Posters I have from the 1940′s clearly state how parents can treat their child(ren) who are ill, at home, with appropriate home remedies, proper diet and rest. That’s it! Virtually ALL of my older relatives had these diseases and gosh, guess what? THEY ALL SURVIVED and have been conferred life-long NATURAL immunity, because of it. Vaccines are DRUGS and as such, NONE are risk free. For many, the risks far outweigh any potential benefit.

Look, there are risks to contracting any given disease, and risks inherent in vaccination. It is devastating to know a child died from a disease, but it is as equally devastating to watch a child suffer a horrendous reaction, and/or die, from having received a vaccine. PLEASE understand; these vaccines are not simply watered down viruses (weakened/attenuated), with saline solutions. These vaccines are cultured, in part, on monkey/dog tissues, pig tissues, etc. Cross-contamination with live viral components, from other ANIMAL SPECIES, are NOT able to be completely filtered out during the manufacturing process. Ergo, you have combination human and animal dna counterparts in these vaccines. There HAS BEEN NO SCIENCTIFIC STUDY BY BIG PHARMA as to how these fragments of RNA/DNA can impact the human immune system, UNTIL OF LATE. Dr. Blaylock HAS performed some of his own research and it HAS been duplicated. But Big Pharma chooses NOT to look at this date. Further, numerous peer reviewed journals DO contain the data as to some of these research projects, but the data is contained in Neuroscience Journals, journals of which MOST pediatricians do NOT review. Pediatricians look ONLY to the American Academy of Pediatrics and to Big Pharma themselves, for their information.

I will never, ever forget this: I was commencing with research back in the mid-1990′s re: vaccine safety/efficacy issues. I asked one particular pediatrician about the whole cell DPT vaccine. Do you know what he told me? That he held his breath each and every time he vaccinated one of his young patients with the DPT vaccine, because he was fully aware of the potential for the pertussis component to cause extreme harm to that child.

Oh my goodness. If more parents would just do their research on vaccines and NOT just accept the advice of someone who happens to wear a white coat and stethescope, you would discover what so many others now are, as well. Unfortunately, our medical institutions do NOT teach our young med students as to the ingredients in vaccines, the harm they CAN and DO cause, nor do they teach these young folks about the reactions vaccines can and do, cause. Fortunately, many brave pediatricians and others alike, in our medical fields, are now coming out, so to speak, and bravely, are confronting the massive big pharma push as to vaccinating our population with even more vaccines.

Diseases and viruses alike, are HERE. You simply cannot eradicate all disease via injection with a dangerous cocktail of ingredients and expect to maintain HEALTH. THINK ABOUT THAT. Most children of whom die of these diseases, in this country, are immunocompromised to begin with. Children who are fed proper diets, get enough rest and live in sanitary conditions, can and do, contract these diseases and do just FINE. Our son had the mumps — guess a big what. He made it! Four days of down time, plenty of fluids, and plenty of rest, was all it took.

Parents who are in their 40′s and younger, have never really seen these diseases, so they’ve been so frightened into believing their children are going to die if they don’t receive these vaccines, when that’s just NOT TRUE!

I’ve said my peace. But I hope those of you reading my posts will reall spend the time reviewing all the literature I’ve posted up for your review.

Your child’s health and future may depend on it. I’m just glad my husband and I did our own research. Our son is now healthy and thriving. He is NOT a disease carrier, by the way. As Dr. Lawrence Palevsky states, just because you’ve had a particular vaccine, does NOT mean you don’t carry other disease carrying viruses inside you! There are millions of viruses lurking out there, of which there are no vaccines! THINK about that; you’re sitting on many of them right now! Also, live virus vaccines SHED; ergo, a recently vacc’d child MAY confer that particular virus (shed) TO MY CHILD, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Think: How would you explain that Johnnie came down with the chickenpox, yet not everyone who came around him, got sick? Vaccinated kids, as peer reviewed journals have remarked, DO BREAK OUT WITH THE VERY DISEASES THEY WERE VACCINATED AGAINST. These vaccines do NOT confer true immunity…most of them wane after just a few years, hence the need for so-called boosters.

There is so much fallacy in the pro-vaccine movement, there just isn’t enough time to go into all of this.

Just do your research. See what you can find. Open your heart and mind to your ‘conditioned soul’ that vaccines are the end all, be all, to good health, and see what you come up with.

Contamination of Vaccines: One Example (taken from the National Vaccine Information Center’s website):

Our Latest Press Release – June 1, 2010
Vaccine Safety Critics Call For RotaTeq Vaccine Recall & Clean-Up

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) joins with holistic health pioneer Dr. Joseph Mercola in calling for Merck to voluntarily recall its live rotavirus vaccine – RotaTeq – which is contaminated with parts of a lethal virus that infects pigs – porcine circovirus 2 (PCV2) – and publicly pledge to clean-up the vaccine.

On May 7th, GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) publicly pledged to re-formulate its rotavirus vaccine, Rotarix, by removing DNA from a non-lethal pig virus (PCV1). RotaTeq is contaminated with DNA from both PCV1 and PCV2. PCV2 is an aggressive virus that causes immune suppression, wasting disease and death in baby pigs.

“Responsible corporations voluntarily recall contaminated foods and drugs that could possibly compromise safety,” said NVIC Co-Founder & President Barbara Loe Fisher. “When RotaTeq is squirted into the mouths of babies, how many doctors or parents know those babies are swallowing DNA from a virus that can injure and kill baby pigs?”

“No company marketing a product found to be contaminated should be given a free pass,” said Dr. Joseph Mercola. “It is always dangerous to assume safety. Vaccines contaminated with viral DNA that could evolve and infect humans cannot and should not be assumed to be safe,” said Dr. Mercola.

The FDA recommended in March that doctors temporarily suspend use of GSK’s Rotarix vaccine after an independent lab using new technology detected PCV1 DNA in the rotavirus vaccine given to infants 2 to 6 months of age. At a special FDA advisory committee meeting on May 7, NVIC called on the FDA to legally require manufacturers to adhere to regulations for testing of vaccines before and after licensure for contamination and also require stricter labeling standards to fully inform consumers about any foreign DNA content that remains in vaccines.

On May 14, the FDA withdrew its suspension of Rotarix vaccine recommendation and pronounced both vaccines safe, even though both remain contaminated and safety data on PCV2 contamination of RotaTeq was not evaluated by the FDA advisory committee.

NVIC and Mercola.com defend informed consent to vaccination and support public access to vaccines that meet high standards for proof of safety and effectiveness. “Rotavirus vaccine is not required for daycare or school entry,” said Fisher. “The American Academy of Pediatrics and doctors should be informing parents they have a choice and that one rotavirus vaccine is contaminated with DNA from a lethal pig virus while the other is not.”

Dr. Mercola pointed to the recent voluntary recall of medicines for children that were contaminated with unidentified “particles,” as well as past voluntary recalls of contaminated food products. “Why should for-profit vaccine corporations which, unlike other industries, are shielded from liability by our government, be different from any other company selling a product in the U.S.? The American consumer has a right to demand that the products they use are pure and free from contamination,” he said.

ok you took too long, so I employed my random selection method. Here’s the sentence my finger landed on:

“These vaccines do NOT confer true immunity…most of them wane after just a few years, hence the need for so-called boosters.”

No shit, a strawman, you guys love these things. No where in the literature has there ever been a claim made otherwise (although “most” and “just a few years” are inaccurate, it’s more like “a few” require boosters after “quite a few” years. Pertussis for instance, is about 15 years, as well as tetanus, which is why they are generally given together).

We know there has never been 100% guarantee with vaccines, but in the aggregate, when enough people have good enough odds of fighting something off, the virus loses a battle against math. It’s ecosystem dries up and it goes away. It’s like draining a swamp of water, the mosquitos have no where left to breed, so they die off in that area. Mass inoculations increase the odds that the average person will fight off the infection, thus decreasing the survivability of the virus.

This really is basic biology, ecosystems 101. I’m surprised to hear adults, much less legal secretaries, who don’t get this. Maybe a Highschool science review is in order? (yeah, that was pretty insulting, oh well.)

I’m one for one.

next we get this gem ” “When RotaTeq is squirted into the mouths of babies, how many doctors or parents know those babies are swallowing DNA from a virus that can injure and kill baby pigs?” ” To be fair, that doesn’t make sense out of context, so lets contextualize it shall we?

“Responsible corporations voluntarily recall contaminated foods and drugs that could possibly compromise safety,”

of course they do.

said NVIC Co-Founder & President Barbara Loe Fisher. “When RotaTeq is squirted into the mouths of babies, how many doctors or parents know those babies are swallowing DNA from a virus that can injure and kill baby pigs?”

Yes, the virus can injure and kill baby pigs. You know what else it can kill? HUMANS! That’s why we use the vaccine to trick the immune system in to creating antibodies against the virus, so that when a human comes in contact with it, the human’s immune system can react more swiftly to indentify the invader and deal with it, you know, before it’s too late.

That’s how vaccines work. This is not news, but worded the right way, it certainly sounds scary!

Ok, this one I let my cat pick, and he was sniffing around that link you provided about the “Simpsonwood document.”, probably because it was the only blue thing in the middle of the screen (selection bias).

So I clicked the link, that takes me to a text only website with an unrecognizable domain, with a big long article written by a one Dr Russell Blaylock, MD. The very beginning of the article states that it was sourced from, ready for this, Dr Blaylocks own website, and Nexus magazine. Here’s Nexus Magazine’s own description of who they are and what they do:

“NEXUS is a bi-monthly alternative news magazine covering health breakthroughs, future science and technology, suppressed news, free energy, religious revisionism, conspiracy, the environment, history and ancient mysteries, the mind, UFOs, paranormal and the unexplained.”

Yes, this reputable journal covers everything from UFO’s to free energy, the whole gambit of woo in one place.

The article he’s referencing in Nexus was written by…. ready for it? himself. So his sources are all self referential, aside from the long list of studies he puts at the bottom as references. None of these studies have the slightest thing to do with any of the claims he makes about this supposed smoking gun, “The Simpsonwood Document”, or it’s contents. They appear to be mostly toxicity studies on mercury, with some studies on lead and a few other chemicals thrown in to boot, none done by him btw.

No where do we get a link to the actual document in question, unless I’m missing it. Maybe you can point me to it? Because if not we have a guy claiming to have a document that he hasn’t produced, that he claims implicates dozens of scholars, pharma co’s and government officials in a cover-up. But yeah, no document, no dice.

Here’s a lengthy take down of this guy: http://www.skepdic.com/blaylock.html

He’s a crank that makes a lot of unsubstantiated medical claims. He’s only ever published 2 papers in his career, the last one in 1988. He no longer practices medicine. Instead, he now hocks his books and his magic, cancer curing elixirs. He is very much on the radar of science based medicine advocates for his quackery.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t want my doctor to be a guy that just makes shit up, which apparently, this guy does.

4 for 4, well, 3 for 3, we won’t count the cat’s choice. That wasn’t done according to my initial protocol (file drawer effect, but in your favor).

I was thinking the same thing Brian. Thanks for the link too, I didn’t know anti-vaxers could be held legally liable if their unvaccinated child passes a VPD on to someone else, good to know.

And by the way, I’ve noted there is a Brian Davis who happens to be affiliated with the Sabin Vaccine Institute and an EriktheBassist who Twitters about anti-vaccinators. Would the two posters over here be one and the same? I’ve noted that Erik is definitely pro-vaccine and seemingly ANTI anti-vaccinator, or at least, according to his Twitter account. While I certainly have no issue whatsoever with anyone who wants to use vaccination as his/her own healthcare CHOICE, I find it truly sad that someone would go to the extent with the vitriolic comments made to my posts. Folks, we watched our lovely, beautiful son almost DIE from a vaccine WE GAVE TO HIM WILLINGLY. His own pediatric staff in Denver acknowledged he had had a vaccine reaction. Further, even after Ryan’s horrific reaction to his whole cell pertussis DPT vaccine, I STILL asked our then pediatrician to further vaccinate Ryan with that vaccine at his six month visit.

He refused.

He explained to me, “He has had two DPT shots at this point. He is no longer to receive the pertussis component of the DPT, because of his severe reaction. If I’m okay with this, YOU be okay with this.”

And that was that. I thank God every day for this pediatrician. I know in my heart he most likely saved our son’s life with that decision.

As Dr. Lawrence Palevsky states in his interview with Dr. Mercola, “It takes a truly gifted spirit (medical personnel) to acknowledge there are safety and efficacy issues with vaccines which MUST be addressed. As more and more children become chronically ill with debilitating juvenile diabetes, juvenile arthritis, etc., more and more educated parents are questioning the safety of vaccines and the long term potential side effects they may have. I do mean educated parents; these are not backwoods people, here. We are lawyers, doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers, lay workers, stay at home mothers, etc. One of my dearest friends is a physician. She, too, believed in vaccines; she was taught as to their safety and efficacy when in medical school, just as all our medical students are taught. It was only when she started performing her own research through peer-reviewed medical (mainstream) journals, that all was not what it seemed as to what she’d been taught about vaccines. The more she researched (she performs at least 1000 hours per year doing research), the more she became absolutely convinced she was not taught the entire truth behind vaccine policies, research and/or safety/efficacy as to vaccines, nor about the actual research behind our childhood vaccination schedule. As more and more children receive these bolus doses of vaccines (NONE of which have been researched as to how many vaccines can truly be given at once SAFELY), she realized something was terribly wrong.

It takes a truly open-hearted physician; a courageous spirit, to dare to question the status quo and ASK THE HARD CORE questions which need to be answered. The momentum to quell those who ask these questions; to stamp out the voices of dissent who dare to question the judgment of those of whom continue to state that vaccine reactions and those that have them, and/or those of whom die from vaccination, is just mere coincidence — I say, there IS NO SUCH THING AS COINCIDENCE. Everything happens for a reason. Nothing happens by chance. So instead of responding to my posts with vitriolic nonsense, how about responding in a cool, calm and effectual manner? You know — as an adult. One can start by not making foolish remarks, with absolutely no justification whatsover, as to somehow a non-vaccinated child could cause VPDs, for goodness sake, and try calmly and rationally, discussing this issue as adults?

For whenever I see these sort of remarks, I realize that someone is feeling pretty defensive and you’ve always got to ask WHY someone is so defensive, if they feel their position on any given topic, is correct?

If I’ve reached just one heart and soul with my posts over here; if I’ve been able to share just enough info. for one parent to just simply do his/her own research into this vaccination question (which is not going to go away, by the way), then I feel these many posts have all been worth it.

Good luck to all of you! Have a nice evening, Erik and Brian.

I’ve written to our state’s public health department, asking the following questions: What were the socio-economic backgrounds of the babies who died (which is tragic, indeed). In other words, as we’ve since found with some of those babies, these babies were Hispanic. The families of these infants ‘may’ be here illegally and as such, the parents were too frightened to take their infants for medical treatment, due to their illegal status. What were the underlying medical conditions of these infants PRIOR to them contracting pertussis? In other words, were their symptoms immunocompromised prior to becoming ill? This is important, because even though pertussis can be a terrible disease for infants, if an infant is hydrated appropriately, perhaps on medications to help, they recover.

When I queried a pediatrician at the state health department as to the above questions, she became quite nervous as to question number one, which was what was the socio-economic status/health status of ALL the infants of whom had died at that time? She did, in fact, claim to not know this answer; it was only AFTER I questioned this particular pediatrician about this, that I received word that ALL the babies of whom the state stated had died from pertussis…

were, unfortunately, Hispanic.

Which, therefore, begs a whole slew of questions as to what the underlying health conditions were/are of these children of whom are contracting pertussis. Further, as the NVIC and other watchdog groups have discovered, Erik, the VACCINATED are contracting the disease; the vaccine has at best, Erik, a 60% efficacy rate…AT BEST. Further, not all of these pertussis cases may be, in fact, true cases of pertussis. Unless a culture is taken, these children can actually be coming down with other respiratory illness (ILI’s), and are being stated as having pertussis. Additionally, parapertussis can often mimic pertussis-like symptoms; as any knowledgeable pediatrician/physician about this and they will concede this. There is NO VACCINE for parapertussis; the pertussis vaccine has NO impact on pertussis (in other words, it does NOT stimulate antibodies to parapertussis).

When you consider that it is documented that our highly vaccinated populous CAN and DOES, contract the very diseases of which they’ve been vaccinated against, you then start to realize that the unvaccinted children ARE NOT AT RISK. Unless, of course, the unvaccinated children are exposed, as our son was, to recently vacc’d kids, of whom were vacc’d with live viral vaccines. That’s yet another issue, but it’s worth of further research for those of whom, here, feel I am somehow not in touch with real science.

Erik, you can find a plethora of information in various peer-reviewed neurology journals, many of which have research/data refuting that of the research done by Big Pharma as to the safety of their vaccines. Several former big pharma scientists have proffered their stories, some anonymously for fear of retribution, as to what they know happens behind closed doors behind the big pharma industry and its so-called research issue. MOST of big pharma’s money is tied into MARKETING, NOT RESEARCH, a sad fact of which both my husband and I found out during our own research. In fact, there is a former Eli Lilly pharma director, now located in Switzerland, who has just written a book about what he knows goes on behind closed doors with Big Pharma and their research projects. True placebos and control groups are notoriously IGNORED when Big Pharma commences with its drug research — and that’s NOT JUST WITH VACCINES, ERIK. Books such as Dr. John Virapen’s, “Side Effects: Death, Confessions of a Pharma-Insider, detail some of the following facts: Pharmaceutical companies invest more than 35,000 Euro (over $50,000.00) per physician each year to get them to prescribe their products; more than 75% of leading scientists in the field of medicine are “paid for” by the pharmaceutical industry; illnesses are made up by the pharma industry and specifically marketed to enhance sales and market shares for the companies in question (various Big Pharma companies). Another book, “The Truth About the Drug Companies,” was written by Dr. Marcia Angell, as to the deceptive practices our Big Pharma companies and their representatives, engage in. As Angell details in her book, contrary to public relations, the industry discovers few genuinely innovative drugs, spends less than HALF AS MUCH ON RESERCH AND DEVELOPMENT (R&D) as on marketing and administration, and consistently have profit margins far above those of most other Fortune 500 companies.

Also, Erik, you may also be unaware that within the medical ranks themselves, they are perfectly aware that pertussis outbreaks TYPICALLY OCCUR EVERY 5 OR SO YEARS, and THIS is within a highly vaccinated population. Here is what the National Vaccine Information Center has found as regards the whooping cough outbreaks:

Reports of whooping cough outbreaks in California1,2 and in other states this summer are nothing new. Every four to five years – no matter how high the vaccination rate is – there are reports of whooping cough increases.

Whooping cough is a respiratory disease. Toxins in Bordetella pertussis bacteria stimulate the production of large amounts of thick, sticky mucus that can clog the airways of tiny babies and children, making it difficult for them to take a breath without vomiting, choking and making a whooping sound3 as they struggle to breathe.

There is an acellular pertussis vaccine – DTaP – which was licensed for American babies in 1996.4 DTaP replaced an older, very reactive whole cell pertussis vaccine – DPT – that was associated with more cases of high fever, collapse/shock, convulsions, brain inflammation and permanent brain damage.5,6

It is well known that pertussis vaccines, which can contain various amounts of bioactive toxins7,8,9,10,11 and also aluminum12,13,14 and mercury15 additives, have killed and brain injured some children. Over half of the 2,480 awards for vaccine injury and death totaling $2 billion dollars made under the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act involve pertussis vaccine.16

Pertussis vaccination rates are very high in the U.S. According to the CDC, 84 percent of children under age three have received four DTaP shots.17 By the time American children enter kindergarten nearly every child has gotten all the CDC recommended pertussis shots.18 In 2009, the CDC said that the proportion of totally unvaccinated children in America is only six hundredths of one percent (0.06).19

Even with super high pertussis vaccine coverage in America and other countries like the Netherlands, Australia, Finland and Canada, whooping cough disease cannot be prevented.20 There are two main reasons for this fact.

First, pertussis vaccines widely used since the 1950’s have not prevented whooping cough disease from circulating in vaccinated populations. Unknown numbers of children and adults, who have gotten all government recommended pertussis shots, can and do develop whooping cough or are carriers without symptoms.21,22

Because pertussis vaccine immunity is only temporary and does not last, health officials are now telling teenagers and adults to get more booster shots.23 But that is not going to matter if scientific evidence that B. pertussis organisms have mutated and become vaccine-resistant turns out to be correct.24

A second important reason is that another Bordetella organism – parapertussis – also can cause whooping cough.25 B. parapertussis symptoms, while often milder, can look exactly like B. pertussis. But doctors rarely recognize or test for parapertussis.26 And there is NO vaccine for parapertussis.

Erikthebassist wrote: “Pertussis is making a comeback because not enough people are vaccinated.”
Actually, that’s not at all clear. Pertussis is surging in CA right now, but it’s been known for a while that it does thia on a 3-5 year timescale. Also, the current manifestation may have more to do with *adult* vaccination here than with kids (in other words, the majority of adults, who can spread it, have not been brought up-to-date on Pertussis vaccine). In this case vaccination does play a role, but that’s not to say it’s exclusively (or even significantly) due to voluntary refusal – here, it may be due to certain groups not having the opportunity to get vaccinated. Novella covers this a little over on Science-based Medicine:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6570
Note that this certainly doesn’t say the vaccine isn’t effective, but instead that the situation is complicated by multiple forcings, including the 3-5 year cycle. The fact that the highest incidence rate, as well as the highest mortality rates, is also in one of the lowest vaccination populations in the state (Hispanic immigrants) actually argues strongly *in favor* of the role of vaccinations in protecting populations from these diseases (even if Bayareamom seems to be missing that, and looking for other correlations when the largest correlation, the under-vaccination of that sub-population relative to the population as a whole, points to vaccination being effective). Essentially, there’s sadly an on-going experiment in how population vaccination interacts with morbidity & mortality during a pertussis problem… and it is, in fact, pointing out the positive roles of vaccinations in such cases.

Oops; ignore those last four lines, I evidently double-copied them when replying to Bayareamom (and already answered them, actually).

I had a lengthy take down of BAM’s 2nd to last comment disappear in to the moderation void. In it were 7 links to 7 different studies showing no link between the MMR vaccine and autism, which was the initial major claim of the anti-vax movement.

So I’m not sure if the moderator went on vacation or what’s going on, but I’m finding the lack or formatting options on this website highly frustrating, and quite frankly, I think any reasonable reader should be able to tell which side deals in actual science based evidence and which side feeds on irrational fear.

I’ll leave BAM with a last thought though.

Imagine a train, barreling down the tracks and headed for a fork. On one side, the side the train is set to go down, lies a person tied to the tracks. On the other side lies 100 people tied to the tracks. If you do nothing, the single person dies, if you flip the switch, 100 people die. This is a variation on a popular thought experiment in philosophy of ethics course work.

What you are essentially saying, is that you’d flip the switch. I find your lack of ethics disturbing.

Fair enough Brian, I can see how it could be misunderstood as well, thanks for the correction / clarification.

Oh wow…SO many comments and just not enough time to respond. What I would love to convey, though, is for all those of whom would consider using ANY pharmaceutical drug (and vaccines are drugs), to please, please perform your own research into the issue PRIOR to just blindly accepting the literature/info. we all receive. Most of us do more research as to whom to our automobiles for tune-ups, than we do with this issue, because a) we’re conditioned that someone in a white coat with stethescope knows more than most, about drugs/vaccines (evidence proves they do not), and b) we’re taught from childhood to trust our authority figures, but not all our authority figures know as much as we’ve been told, either.

Pediatricians are not taught in med school about the ingredients in vaccines, nor are they taught much about vaccine reactions. If they are, it is very little. What information they DO receive is from pharmaceutical suppliers/companies and from their own societies, such as the American Academy of Pediatrics. Pediatricians truly mean well; these are not bad people; they genuinely care for their patients. The sad thing for me is speaking to several of whom have acknowledged to me their very real concerns are vaccines, but yet their reluctance to speak openly about those very concerns, is quite palpable. There is true reluctance for most of them to speak even amongst themselves about these real concerns, for fear of being shunned by their peers, and/or worse.

Today, health journalists are being warned by those in positions of authority to only report one side of the vaccine safety story – our media, the same.

But as more and more become sickened, or even worse, die, from drug/vaccine side effects, more people are questioning the information flowing through the coffers of the CDC, the FDA and our pharma companies. I know that I, too, was once completely pro-vaccine and had no compunctions as to vaccinating our son — until we almost lost him.

The pro-choice, pro-informed consent ethic should abide in any medical decision, most especially when you are being told to take a vaccine, or any other drug for that matter, of which could have serious health complications for you and/or your child. None of us carry the same immune system; for we are all, truly, born with certain genetic characteristics of which make us unique. Therefore, some of us have more risk than perhaps others, in suffering side effects from any vaccine or drug, which may not impact another in the same adverse fashion.

Physicians should not be bullies — we ‘hire’ them to work WITH us in helping us maintain optimum health. If you cannot find a physician and/or a pediatrician who will work with you as an equal partner in choosing the best healthcare options for YOU and your family, consider finding someone else who will give you this respect.

It is your body, your life and your health.

“SO many comments and just not enough time to respond.”

So… you decide to respond to none of them? That doesn’t seem like education or communication.

“…please perform your own research into the issue…”

Hey, that sounds like an excellent idea…

“…PRIOR to just blindly accepting the literature/info. we all receive”

…while that sounds like an ideal way to bias a decision. Why should the order in which we research it determine the outcome? Or, conversely, if the order it’s researched in does make a difference, why bias the conclusion by STRONGLY EMPHASIZING an order for the research you do? That’s a well-constructed, nicely neutral-sounding statement… that in fact ensures a bias in the research.

“…we’re conditioned that someone in a white coat with stethescope knows more than most, about drugs/vaccines (evidence proves they do not),”

Here’s where, yet again, I’m pretty sure you have no idea what research or logical conclusions are. Evidence actually *does show* they do know ‘more than most’… in fact, more than almost all. It’s called training. And research. And the scientific method. That’s what the evidence shows works… and the evidence shows that vaccines are effective, and that vaccines are usually safe… and perhaps most importantly, that the trade-off is *heavily* in favor of being vaccinated.

“Pediatricians are not taught in med school about the ingredients in vaccines, nor are they taught much about vaccine reactions.”

Having personally sat in on some medical school classes, I can state from personal experience that this is not the case. They are taught about them.

“If they are, it is very little.”

I thought you just said they aren’t? Which is it? Or are you just trying to bias a reader with multiple (but not remotely independent) points?

There’s so much here to address once again, but clearly BAM has gone back to putting out nice-sounding but fairly content-free text. So I’ll just address one other point here:

“Physicians should not be bullies — we ‘hire’ them to work WITH us in helping us maintain optimum health”

They’re not bullies. But most of them do realize that, personally, seeing thousands of patients a year (including giving thousands of vaccinations), and having multiple years of specific education in their field, plus a multi-year residency, and are required, by law, to maintain an up-to-date understanding of new material in their field.

All opinions are not created equal. some are informed more than others. Which do you think is more likely to be informed – someone who specializes in medicine? Or somebody who never looked at the problem until there was a potential correlation with somebody they knew?

We do not vax our kids and I know MANY people who are also WISE enough to NOT vax their poor innocent babies! I have many friends who either work for or know scientists who manufacture vaccines…guess what??? MOST scientists AND vaccine experts do NOT vax their own kids….kind of makes you think, doesn’t it????

I was very curious about that and suspect they do not vaccinate, as they have had several bouts of childhood illnesses. I have taken note that out of the 19 children, they have zero children with autism, or developmental delays, ADHD, etc. With such a large number of children and the incidence of autism being so high, they should have at least one, if not more with autism. Perhaps that is why their children are free from these debilitating and devastating disabilities. I’d rather suffer through the measles, chicken pox than to have a lifelong disability like autism and such. By the way, I had the measles and chicken pox as a kid. I was miserable while sick, but I came out of it with my mind intact. In my childhood, I never heard of a child dying from chicken pox, mumps, or measles. Polio was another story and the vaccine worked wonders. That vaccine, then did not cause any harm to children. Today, the need to own the patent on the latest drugs, make pharmaceutical companies rush to get their hands on the patent, which is more important than creating a safe vaccine. The monies they make are in the trillions, so there is no time for being careful. Just get their name on the drug and hold the patent for two years, then it’s on to the next patent. That’s why all the drugs coming out today have so many warnings and dangerous side affects.
So, good for the Duggers. They are smart to protect their children.