Being Pregnant

Foreskin Freak-Outs Put Into Perspective

Posted by ceridwen on June 15th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

babyboy 300x300 Foreskin Freak Outs Put Into Perspective “Circumcision is one of humanities greatest crimes, and American parents who continue to let this go on are its accomplices.”

The above is a little sampling from the big old freak-out happening in New Jersey on the topic of circumcision. Apparently, Jayne Freeman, of Jersey City’s Mamarama, was too damn neutral in her stance. And the comments– such as the one above– started to fly.

Freeman’s opinion– which I share– is that circumcision is a personal choice one should make having looked at the research and considered the options thoughtfully. And since current research has led the American Academy of Pediatricians to conclude that circumcision should neither be routinely performed nor banned,  that pretty much leaves us with “it’s personal.”

When you look very closely at the statistics, the increases of risks on either side are so minor they are not considered significant. The data is not coming down hard on for anyone. I guess that’s why these circ/anti-circ battles can be such crazed, mud-flinging fests!

The extreme points of view, while cementing an opinion for some, can be absolutely devastating to most.  To be told you are mutilating your child, or, if you go the other way, exposing him to ridicule or disease? No one wants any of the bad things listed on either the pro or anti-circ websites to happen to their baby boys. And, according to the AAP and many other medical authorities, they won’t happen!

How are you handling/did you handle the circumcision question? Do you feel like collateral damage in the circ wars? Or are you managing to steer through, mud-free?

photo: Cyron Ray Macey/Flickr

 Foreskin Freak Outs Put Into Perspective

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29 Comments

We handled it by keeping it an issue among ourselves and our pediatrician. My sister in law has been trying to figure out if we circumcised our son for a year and a half now (she hasn’t had the chance to change a diaper for him), and I just keep ignoring her attempts to have a conversation about it. I have my opinion and she has hers. Do I think she’s wrong? Absolutely. Is there anything I can do about it? No. So, live and let live, right?

Jessica commented on Jun 15 10 at 3:48 pm

You say that circumcision is a personal choice, but seem to suggest that parents should be able to take that choice away from the person most directly affected. Whose body is it?

It’s illegal to cut off a girl’s prepuce, or to make any incision on a girl’s genitals, even if no tissue is removed. Why don’t boys get the same protection? Everyone should be able to decide for themselves whether they want parts of their genitals cut off.

You might also want to check out the following:

Canadian Paediatric Society
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/fn/fn96-01.htm
“Recommendation: Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed.”

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancy&babies/circumcision.htm
“Circumcision is a ‘non-therapeutic’ procedure, which means it is not medically necessary.”
“After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions.”

Royal Australasian College of Physicians
http://www.racp.edu.au/index.cfm?objectid=B5610716-9E3E-6C97-A8D87880FD002E3B
“After extensive review of the literature, the Paediatrics & Child Health Division of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians has concluded that there is no medical reason for routine newborn male circumcision.”
(almost all the men responsible for this statement will be circumcised themselves, as the male circumcision rate in Australia in 1950 was about 90%. “Routine” circumcision is now *banned* in public hospitals in Australia in all states except one.)

British Medical Association
http://www.bma.org.uk/ethics/consent_and_capacity/malecircumcision2006.jsp#Circumcisionformedicalpurposes
“to circumcise for therapeutic reasons where medical research has shown other techniques to be at least as effective and less invasive would be unethical and inappropriate.”

The Royal Dutch Medical Association
http://knmg.artsennet.nl/Diensten/knmgpublicaties/KNMGpublicatie/Nontherapeutic-circumcision-of-male-minors-2010.htm
“The official viewpoint of KNMG and other related medical/scientific organisations is that non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is a violation of children’s rights to autonomy and physical integrity. Contrary to popular belief, circumcision can cause complications – bleeding, infection, urethral stricture and panic attacks are particularly common. KNMG is therefore urging a strong policy of deterrence. KNMG is calling upon doctors to actively and insistently inform parents who are considering the procedure of the absence of medical benefits and the danger of complications.”

Mark Lyndon commented on Jun 15 10 at 5:28 pm

Losing the function of the foreskin from circumcision is not a “risk,” it is a given. Please stop equivocating and deal with that issue, thanks.

DK commented on Jun 15 10 at 7:12 pm

You are half right: “circumcision is a personal choice.” As a son who was circumcised at birth, I feel that my body was violated. A part of my body, a part that I really would like to have kept, was removed without my consent. And, it was removed for no real medical reason. It is my penis, not my parents. I am the one who will use my sex organ, not my parents.

My body, my choice.

Restoring Tally commented on Jun 15 10 at 10:50 pm

When you personally have had problems with your foreskin, then you certainly wont agree that it is so wonderful. Mark Lyndon is what is described as an intactivist. Notice his anti circumcision stance. Someone who believes he has been shortchanged by being circumcised. You have never experienced any problem, because your parents made a decision that prevented you from having to deal with real problems. No tearing of your foreskin, no pain when urinating, no smegma to deal or the “stench” that goes with it and a myriad of other real problems that are real. While you state all these quotes, you merely state your ignorance by clearly neglecting any benefits. Medically and scientifically, not to mention biblically your statements don’t fly at all. Circumcision has way more value than you could ever see because you are blinded by all your reading of foreskin propaganda. While the foreskin has function, it can also be a menace. Even the queen of the anti-circumcision movement, Marilyn Milos had all three her sons circumcised and enjoyed sexual intercourse herself with a circumcised husband. Then she became a born again foreskin intactivist. It cost her her marriage and her relationship with her children, because they were sick and tired of listening to stories about foreskins all day long. Mark, that is exactly where you are and what you have posted. Try http://www.circlist.com and read about real people that have had real foreskin problems and how they have dealt with the issues. Circumcision is a benefit to every man and the woman he has intercourse with. Biblically its been taught for thousands of years and cant be wrong. Being rid of my foreskin after years of problems leave me with one regret: that I was not circumcised as an infant after suffering very painful issues all related to my foreskin. It happens more often than not and these are issues that are never reported for statistical purposes. So its very easy to stand on a soapbox and preach about how everyone else is wrong and you are right. My wife and I had our son circumcised and have NO regrets and neither does he. I would not hesitate to have it done all over again. More parents that have had sons have regretted not having them circumcised than those that have. Also, when polled 83% of women had their sons circumcised even though 72% where in relationships with circumcised men. Clearly there is a preference and a reason for that preference. That too is on the circlist website. As one female comedian put it: Don’t let a future girlfriend make the decision for your son’s circumcision. Its your responsibility as a parent to have it done. It could be very embarrassing for him and could cost him a great girl”.

JM commented on Jun 15 10 at 10:54 pm

When did you get to make the “personal” choice about your own circumcision? If not… Why do you think you get to make the personal choice about anyone else’s?

Sarah commented on Jun 15 10 at 11:57 pm

The only one that will feel the pleasure of the about 20000 nerve endings is the owner of the penis. Once these stretch and fine touch sensors are gone, the human does not get stretch and fine touch pleasure. So yes it is a personal choice of the one that owns the nerve endings. How is it ever appropriate to remove pleasure giving parts of another human’s body.

The only touch organ possessing as rich erogenous innervation as the foreskin is the clitoris. Circumcision deprives man of 2/3ds of the main erogenous zone constituted of the foreskin and the glans.
BTW, the other risks (besides loss of sexual function, ED, PE and loss of PLEASURE) include curved or misshapen erection, painful erection, botches of all sorts (many requiring redo) and death. About 120 boys DIE each year in the US from this sick practice.

Male circumcision is nerve damage — a cutting off about 20000 fine touch and stretch sensing nerve endings and removing a source of pleasure from the male FOR LIFE. This is 2/3 of the total pleasure source amputated! This is nerves, blood vessels, protective covering and pleasure zones taken away from a human before the human can experience this. The dynamics and function and pleasure from sex and masturbation of the penis is harmed for good.

Jackieno commented on Jun 16 10 at 10:16 am

“The official viewpoint of KNMG and other related medical/scientific organisations is that non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is a violation of children’s rights”

Parents, you need to deal with the above. You need to see how the rest of the civilized world looks at it and you need to deal with it. You can’t laugh it away or try to minimize it. You need to get educated. Infant circumcision is a harmful scam and a violation of children’s rights.

matt commented on Jun 16 10 at 11:17 am

Really, the author is correct that the research and medical opinions are all pretty much that there are pretty equal reasons for and against.

Yes, there is the risk of complications – there is also the risk of complications with leaving it intact.

I know someone personally who had to be circ’d at age 9 and was totally traumatized by it – far worse and more affecting than those who wish it hadn’t been done, I think. Really, if you’ve never had a foreskin, how do you know if it would be much different to have one than not, anyhow? Most circ’d men I know just don’t worry about this, because they have what they have and realize that worrying about what they might be missing is not only futile, but total speculation.

kittenpie commented on Jun 16 10 at 11:21 am

First of all, I want to thank you for writing this article. As a first time expectant mom this issue has been a very tough one to deal with. I understand both sides of the argument however, as you say above, none of the evidence is really overwhelming. So either way I am faced with guilt. It’s something that my family never gave any thought to whatsoever so it isn’t a topic that I can discuss with many people. It IS a personal choice, and like it or not as a parent you are asked to make personal choices on behalf of your children constantly, most of which your children have no say so about. I am just constantly shocked to see how downright mean people can get on these type of things. It’s a scary world we live in when there is so much guilt surrounding a pregnancy, which used to be viewed as such a beautiful, magical time.

Laura commented on Jun 16 10 at 12:20 pm

Yes, there are people who have problems with their foreskin, but the majority of men have no issues what so ever. Over 80% of the men in the world are uncircumcised, and if problems with the foreskin was so pervasive, then there would be over 80% of the world’s male population clambering for circumcisions.

Sorry, but I’m part of the camp that finds circumcision to be mutilation unless it’s for a real medical issues.

Alicia commented on Jun 16 10 at 2:34 pm

I personally don’t care if someone circumcises their child or not. I do see it as a personal decision. However, I’ll tell you why I did not circumcise my two sons. I’ve been a nurse for over 25 years. I’ve worked all over the country with both old and young (newborn) and I’ve worked with various cultures. Most circumcisions go off without a hitch. Boys and men can have minor issues with both circumcised and uncircumcised penises. That said, I’ve never seen a person die from having a foreskin, nor have I ever seen *major* complications resulting in keeping the foreskin. I’ve seen one child die from a circumcision and several have severe disfigurement and hemorrhaging due to the surgery (heck, there is a link at the bottom of this page for a Babble article on “botched circumcision”). So given that the worst case scenario leaving my boys intact involved maybe an antibiotic but the worst case for a circumcision involved a funeral, I opted to leave the boys alone. Everything in life is a gamble and risk always surrounds us. I just opted on trusting in the way our bodies were designed and then seeking medical intervention if something *did* happen.
If anyone cares, both my boys, now 20 and 14 have never had any medical or hygiene issues.
But all this fighting and name calling over issues like circumcision will never change anyone’s mind or bring us closer together. The best medical advice I could offer is for all parents to fully research pros and cons, talk to a doctor or two (not one who would profit from the surgery), and then follow your heart. The circumcision decision is the first of many parents will have to face and none of them are easy!

Anna commented on Jun 16 10 at 3:18 pm

I care if people speak up about the harm of infant circumcision. I was circumcised shortly after birth, in spit of my protests. I screamed, but they kept cutting my penis. I would have appreciated it if someone had convinced my parents that the surgery on my sex organ was totally unnecessary. We all need to speak out for those with no voice. We need to protect our children, not give them unnecessary surgery.

Restoring Tally commented on Jun 16 10 at 10:25 pm

I am an uncircumcised American guy who was born in the early 1970s. I have never had any problems with my equipment, nor have I faced any ridicule despite the fact that I was the only uncirc’d kid amongst my friends and, aside from my brother, probably in the entire town. None of the women who have seen it have complained about it either or refused to pleasure me in certain ways – most didn’t even seem to notice and a few even said they liked me better that way. Presumably none of them, including my wife, had ever been with an intact guy before.
OK, enough bragging -When our son was born this past February, we had already decided long before that he would not be circumcised. However, we were probably asked at least a dozen times if we wanted to have it done, to the point that I worried it might happen by accident, if they mixed him up with another baby. Fortunately, it didn’t ! I think that hospitals should not circumcise newborns unless both parents request the procedure in writing and it should not be covered by insurance. I do not begrudge parents who choose to do it though and think that foreskin fanatics/intactivists are doing themselves a disservice by turning their cause into a religious crusade.

Nick commented on Jun 16 10 at 11:50 pm

“And, according to the AAP and many other medical authorities, they won’t happen!”

That’s just not true. They put a low figure on the chances of it happening – too low, according to several studies – but when you buy a ticket in that lottery, you just might win.

@Kittenpie: Frightening stories about a child or man who “had to be circumcised” get much more circulation than the dull stories about the literally billions of men who enjoy their foreskins and would fight rather than lose them.

@JM: “It cost her her marriage and her relationship with her children, because they were sick and tired of listening to stories about foreskins all day long.” That is a blatant fabrication. And circlist is a fetishist website where members may read and slaver over stories about being circumcised by cruel nurses and the like.

@Laura: “as a parent you are asked to make personal choices on behalf of your children constantly”, but there is no choice quite like this – to cut a normal, healthy part of his anatomy off, for life. The rest of his body is at no such risk (why the anomaly?), and the exactly corresponding part of a girl has special legal protection (why the double standard?). The AAP recently suggested allowing a “ritual nick” to prevent worse befalling girls and quickly had to withdraw, even though that nick was to be “much less extensive than routine newborn male genital cutting”.

Hugh7 commented on Jun 17 10 at 12:01 am

I don’t understand how anybody can think that it’s perfectly okay, much less *necessary,* to cut off a perfectly healthy body part for any reason. We don’t cut off girls’ clitoral hoods — we consider it a barbaric practice done by people who don’t know better. But it’s perfectly normal to cut off the foreskin of a boy?

As for smegma and other issues with cleanliness, as long as it’s cleaned regularly, there’s no problem — and how hard can it be to get a boy to rub his penis in the bath?

You’d think that our species couldn’t survive without circumcision, the way people talk about this in the US. But in most other countries, the statistics are the other way around: most males are not circumcised. How do these societies manage to survive, when the majority of their men are subject to such awful complications of not circumcising? It’s truly a miracle. Or maybe circumcision isn’t as good as its advocates would have you believe.

If nothing else, let your son decide for himself. It’s not you who has to live with your decision to circumcise him. It can always be cut off later, but it’s a lot more difficult to grow it back, and he’ll never get back the sensation that he would have had.

lynn commented on Jun 17 10 at 12:19 pm

JM, Why the need for dishonesty? I was married to an intact man who, like me, was lied to by my ob/gyn about circumcision, which is why our sons were circumcised. My husband and children are all proud of the work I do. One of my sons has narrated a circumcision documentary and helped me produce a NOCIRC educational video. He created the NOCIRC Public Service Announcement and the NOCIRC educational DVD, which can be seen at http://www.nocirc.org. Another one of my sons has an intact son, as does my daughter. And, my two step-daughters each have an intact son. Surely, if your argument is strong and you have right on your side, you don’t need to distort the truth or lie. I am simply standing up for genital autonomy for every person–male, female, and intersex alike! If you must promote circumcision, stick with those who can make the choice for themselves after they’ve reached the age of majority, are educate without bias, not coerced, forced, or lied to. I suggest you begin by ending the lies first! Your comments were not only untrue, they weren’t very nice. Shame on you.

Marilyn Milos, RN commented on Jun 18 10 at 5:47 pm

“Circumcision is one of humanit[y']s greatest crimes,” certainly sounds like a wild exaggeration at first, but consider that it is done about every 26 seconds in the US, 1.2 million times every year, about 14 million worldwide. Multiply each individual small human rights abuse by that figure and it mounts up.

@Nick: “I am an uncircumcised American … I have never had any problems … nor have I faced any ridicule … None of the women who have seen it have complained about it either or refused to pleasure me in certain ways … When our son was born … we were probably asked at least a dozen times if we wanted to have it done … I … think that foreskin fanatics/intactivists are doing themselves a disservice by turning their cause into a religious crusade.” Look at what you wrote and ask, “Just WHO has turned it into a religious crusade?” Not the people who just want babies’ genitals to be left alone. How about, the people who falsely say it will give problems, that he will be ridiculed, that women won’t like it, and who ask you at least a dozen times if you want it done? How about the people who can’t give a sensible reason but are still determined to do it? They are the ones who have turned it into a (quasi-)religious crusade.

Hugh7 commented on Jun 19 10 at 3:06 am

Thanks for standing up for me, Hugh. I’ve waited days to see an apology from JM for his lies about me, which have not been forthcoming. Why do you think that is?

Marilyn Milos, RN commented on Jun 23 10 at 5:21 pm

We did not cut our son, we do not have the right to make that sort of decision for his body. My husband is cir’d and assumed that his son would be as well. I had him watch a video of the procedure, and my son remained whole, just as he was meant to be.

Kele commented on Jun 25 10 at 2:21 pm

It is refreshing to see some recognition of children’s rights in this issue. But circumcision is not “chosen by” children, it is imposed on them. It is a permanent modification of the body which is not welcome by all.
New claims that it is efficacious in providing [limited] protection against HIV should not blind us to the fact that cutting off part of a child’s penis is flagrant breach of his fundamental human rights.
Assuming that your child is going to become a promiscuous sex fiend and punishing him on that assumption by amputating parts of his genitals is not only disrespectful to the child but admission of being incapable of parenting.

Children are entitled to an “open future,” with no options foreclosed that could not wait for the child’s expressed preference.
Courts pay undue deference to parental discretion – cultural and religious – at the expense of the child’s human rights.
All children, whether female, intersex or male should be allowed to make a personal choice about whether or not to have genital surgery when they are of sufficient age and maturity to make that choice.

Frank McGinness commented on Aug 23 10 at 10:21 pm

I chose circumcision,(the exposed glans being more interesting) before puberty and dealt with during puberty very noticeable sensation loss over a long time. All due to keratinization. I was happy at first, then questioning loss of sensitivity, not knowing why, then became self doubt and a mind F–k! Had my doctor told me I would lose pleasure, many types of foreplay I can never do, I would not have done it. Loss of pleasure as been known for 800 years (Moses Maimonides). Yet the US medical profession hasn’t addressed this. Most medical books don’t even show the foreskin. The CDC says 34% and 35% of US teens are mistaken about being intact and circumcised. Education is not had from the CDC, AAP, nor from school.

Many Doctors erroneously state foreskin retraction by age 6, but it natures protection until it is ready for action, at puberty. And some can take up to 19 years. Doctors see phimosis as a problem. Many men are fine with it. No problems. Further, doctors say the inner foreskin and glans if mucosa like the inside of the mouth and vagina. Then stupidly say use soap under the foreskin. This doesn’t make sense. You wouldn’t use soap in your mouth or vagina. The foreskin has an internal structure that keeps a balanced pH. Soap can unbalance the pH and so many infections typically repeating infections can result. “Had my boy circumcised. He kept getting infections.” Yea, from over cleaning to prevent further infections. Thanks doc! And doc, stop saying uncircimcised. If boys are born uncircumcised are girls born unmastectomied?

Oh, Yeah, I hate being circumcised. The more I found out, the more I got angry. I couldn’t even read through a single page without stopping because each loss put me in a tail spin. CIRCUMCISION BIGGEST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE!

Frank McGinness commented on Aug 23 10 at 10:55 pm

It is refreshing to see some recognition of children’s rights in this issue. But circumcision is not “chosen by” children, it is imposed on them. It is a permanent modification of the body which is not welcome by all.
New claims that it is efficatious in providing [limited] protection against HIV should not blind us to the fact that cutting off part of a child’s penis is flagrant breach of his fundamental human rights.
Assuming that your child is going to become a promiscuous sex fiend and punishing him on that assumption by amputating parts of his genitals is not only disrespectful to the child but admission of being incapable of parenting.

Children are entitled to an “open future,” with no options foreclosed that could not wait for the child’s expressed preference.
Courts pay undue deference to parental discretion – cultural and religious – at the expense of the child’s human rights.
All children, whether female, intersex or male should be allowed to make a personal choice about whether or not to have genital surgery when they are of sufficient age and maturity to make that choice.

Frank McGinness commented on Aug 23 10 at 10:55 pm

Sorry about the reposting. Frank

Frank McGinness commented on Aug 23 10 at 11:06 pm

Chosing circumcision for yourself as an adult is one thing, having circumcision performed on a man as an infant who cannot chose is another thing altogether. Comparing the two is not unlike comparing fgm to mgm.
Men who are raised intact by educated, informed parents grow up not to need circumcision caused from neglect.

FredR commented on Aug 25 10 at 11:17 am

It is very important not to let procirs near your intact children because they know subversive ways to cause the curse of circumcision to be necessary, to justify their superstitious convictions.

FredR commented on Aug 25 10 at 11:21 am

I left all three of my sons intact. They are older now, and they have all thanked me. Quite plainly, the foreskin is fun to play with…it feels good, and they have been enjoying it since they figured out what exactly goes on down there.

I can understand why people have professed that eliminating foreskin would curb sexual desire in both boys and girls. That is certainly sensitive flesh, and you can’t seek to enjoy it if it isn’t there!

Alison commented on Sep 10 11 at 4:54 pm

I have read and read about Mrs Milos for about 25 years now, and can confirm that JM’s remarks above about her life story are gratuitous and false.

“Freeman’s opinion– which I share– is that circumcision is a personal choice one should make having looked at the research and considered the options thoughtfully.”
ME. Which person? The doctor, the parents, or the person whose nervous system is connected to the parts to be amputated?

“And since current research has led the American Academy of Pediatricians to conclude that circumcision should neither be routinely performed nor banned, that pretty much leaves us with “it’s personal.”
ME. Medical societies in other countries, especially a recent statement by the one in the Netherlands, have taken a far more anti-circ stance. The AAP Task Forces are sharply divided between pro-circers (led by Edgar Schoen, born 1925) and those who say the evidence is not compelling. The AAP’s statements are ugly compromises that do not do justice to the truth.

“When you look very closely at the statistics, the increases of risks on either side are so minor they are not considered significant. The data is not coming down hard on for anyone. I guess that’s why these circ/anti-circ battles can be such crazed, mud-flinging fests!”
ME. American medicine has not done an honest job of counting and reporting the complications and tragedies that result from RIC, especially the complications that gradually manifest themselves after years or decades. The gradual loss of sexual sensation that many men complain of has not been properly investigated. The same is true of possible correlations between RIC and PE, ED, and jackhammer sex. I know of no reliable scientific work on the effect of circumcision on women’s sexual pleasure. A growing number of women under 40 have had intercourse with both kinds of men. A careful random sample of such women should be interviewed at length.

“The extreme points of view, while cementing an opinion for some, can be absolutely devastating to most. To be told you are mutilating your child, or, if you go the other way, exposing him to ridicule or disease? No one wants any of the bad things listed on either the pro or anti-circ websites to happen to their baby boys.”
ME. I never use the word “mutilate” and invite other intactivists to follow my example. If circumcision does not have compelling benefits, why do it? If circumcision can have sexual drawbacks in some cases, why do it?

“And, according to the AAP and many other medical authorities, they won’t happen!”
ME. The AAP doesn’t know what it is talking about, because USA medicine has yet to do an honest job of counting the damage resulting from RIC.

The rule of thumb in Australian medicine is that 1% of RICs result in a damaged adult penis. That is reason enough to stop RIC forthwith.

myrick commented on Sep 10 11 at 10:16 pm

A partial reply to JM

“Circumcision is a benefit to every man and the woman he has intercourse with.”
ME. What about the many men and women who do not agree?

“Biblically its been taught for thousands of years and cant be wrong.”
ME. The Bible can indeed be wrong about some things. And the requirement in Genesis 17 only holds for the descendants of Abraham.

“Being rid of my foreskin after years of problems leave me with one regret: that I was not circumcised as an infant after suffering very painful issues all related to my foreskin.”
ME. Your foreskin problems are a reason for you to seek out circumcision after your 18th birthday. They do not justify circumcising an newborn infant today.

“It happens more often than not and these are issues that are never reported for statistical purposes.”
ME. Likewise, the American medical literature does not do justice to problems caused by circumcision. I have been waiting for 30 years for an article based on polling USA urologists about foreskin problems.

“So its very easy to stand on a soapbox and preach about how everyone else is wrong and you are right.”
ME. The irony in what you write here has not escaped me.

“More parents that have had sons have regretted not having them circumcised than those that have.”
ME. HOw can you know that? And would such a finding hold up outside of the USA or a Moslem culture?

“Also, when polled 83% of women had their sons circumcised even though 72% where in relationships with circumcised men.”
ME. Source, please? And would that finding hold up outside of the USA? Your figures do not make sense. 72% with circumcised men is too low to be the USA, and 83% circumcised is too high.

“Clearly there is a preference and a reason for that preference.”

“That too is on the circlist website.”
ME. Circlist is not valid evidence.

As one female comedian put it: Don’t let a future girlfriend make the decision for your son’s circumcision. It could be very embarrassing for him and could cost him a great girl”.
ME. A young woman who would reject a son of mine because he had foreskin is a woman I do NOT want as a daughter in law. Likewise, a young man who would not marry a daughter of mine because her labia minora were too ample, or her breasts were too small/large, is a man I do not want as a son in law.

“Its your responsibility as a parent to have it done.”
ME. NOT!!

myrick commented on Sep 10 11 at 10:28 pm

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