People are furious and desperate. I hope that OWS is a seed that will grow and blossom into a more organized effort. I admire the protestors for making an effort to show the world that a significant portion of Americans support social democracy. The majority of American people have been bullied and abused at the hands of Wall Street and Republican policy for so long that fighting back seems foreign. Maybe the preliminary efforts of OWS seem rag-tag but I tell my son that the protestors are American heroes who are standing up to bullies.

Thank you, Katie. I consider myself to be pretty darn liberal (I campaigned for Ralph Nader in the last election, if that’s any indication) but this OWS clowns just annoy me. I understand and sympathize with the message, but the way they’re attempting to carry it out is just silly. OWS has become a punch line about spoiled hippies camping out in parks, instead of making any positive contribution to the dialogue.

I kept hoping that they would grow into an organized movement with leaders, clear issues and goals. When the unions started taking them seriously, I had hope.

They managed to achieve a certain critical mass and visibility and had people on their side, but then, then they wasted it. A lot of people are angry, and they could have capitalized on that much more than they have. I guess I’m frustrated with them…

That said, I regret that they are being evicted, as I just don’t see a way forward that way.

We had something sort of similar in Canada, albeit not involving squatting, and without agreed-upon goals and a leaders, it eventually just sputtered. When the current Prime Minister (Steven Harper) had a minority government a couple of years ago, his government was on the verge of falling over a confidence issue he himself staged. He ran to the Governor General to dissolve Parliament so that his government wouldn’t fall — the first time such a thing had ever happened in the Westminster system. As a result, a facebook group sprang up, Canadians Against Proroguing Parliament. Over 100,000 people joined, a huge number for Canada. And with people starting to talk, ideas started to percolate, groups started to form. It really looked as if the group could become a political force. But… everything frittered. There started to be squabbles about leadership. The de facto leader, the young man who started the group, didn’t want to be politically involved, and wanted the group to maintain neutrality. All much like the Occupy Wall Street movement. So… it eventually shuttered. And all that energy died. And then Harper got a majority government, and is now busy ramming ultra-right wing policies onto mostly centrist Canadians.

They need to step up to the plate, and LEAD somewhere, to some goal.

I really thought you were going to say that E knows you don’t cook. ;)

I think it is ineffective. I actually think a lot of people agree that wall street and the crazy pants compensation system is off the chain. I just don’t get how the tent city full of hippie wannabes impacts that.

Erin, curious about this policy you are referring to and what state are you referring to? Each Occupy has different challenges so it totally depends on your area. If policies override the Constitution than there is that problem that needs to be resolved. None of the protests have broken the law, only policies. Policies are not law. You know, you heard that term when calling tech support or a billing department, “I am sorry but that’s not in our policy.” That’s a rule to benefit the status quo.

So it seems the majority of the confusion is what is the motive of the Occupy Movement? Am I correct?

The answer is different, but the main few that everyone agrees on is, 1) Remove Corporate Personhood, 2) Jails shouldn’t be privatized, and 3) Take the money out of Politics. This is the cohesive message that all of the Occupy (insert city) can agree with.

Now, the last statement I will make, is this, The reason you don’t know what the movement is all about is because the media won’t report it. They are the same people that are paying the politicians. The occupations prove it over and over.

Regarding the violence, are you seeing it on TV? No, because they don’t have it, they only report it via text because there is no video of it. The violence is coming from the other side though, have you seen that video? I got about 150 hours of it from all over North America and London.

For the record – I am indifferent to the Occupy Movement. I’m not holding a picketing sign and sleeping in a tent, but I’m also not “hating” on them either. Howerver, I think you do have to recognize movement for at least trying something different. They exercised their rights and spoke out for how many of Americans feel. While their approach was not the best strategically, it did gain momentum for a bit – and the sentiments were shared worldwide. What exactly are the other options if you have no faith in the money controlled politics of today? The media reports of these groups were of negative connotations from the very start – and the worst violence I have seen has been on the side of Law Enforcement. You can blame their ineffectiveness on movement themselves – the lack of clear strategy, and blatant disorganization, but I also blame the fact they were discounted as “dirty, spoiled hippies” from the get go. I have to wonder if this was instead, well dressed ex-employees of the financial sector, picketing instead of camping, if it would’ve received the same response.

I have no interest in actually “occupying” a public space, but I do support the movement, and I did my part by moving my money from an international conglomerate (Citibank) to a small local bank in my community. I urge everyone to vote with their money, and take that small step at least.

TO: All
RE: Showoffy ‘Stunts’?

We’ll see about that.

I suspect that when the temper-tantrum don’t get them what they want. And the ‘showoffy stunts’ don’t get them what they want. We’ll see some more demonstrative activities.

For example:

• Disrupting primary transportation
• Molotov Cocktails
• Perhaps even ‘murder’

We’ve already seen reports that these overgrown adolescents intend on the first of the three. The police are still investigating what was behind the third, as to whether or not it is related to the OWS movement, or some personal matter.

Time will tell. And I suspect it will tell for the worse.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Don't worry. Things will get worse.]

What planet are most of you from? Peaceful, meaningful, a movement that should inspire? Really?

These are a bunch of whiny losers inspired by President Hopenchange to do what he’s done his entire life. Protest.

Being liberal is one thing, being blind and stupid is another.

Sheesh.

We’re still in a Wile E Coyote moment nationally. We’ve run off the cliff but haven’t really taken the wild ride down to the painful “paff” on the canyon floor. Our future is Greece and 50%+ budget cuts at every level in a bond market vigilante dictated deleveraging that will be awesome in its pain and destructiveness. These bond market vigilantes are global and act when they perceive too much daylight between someone’s appetite for bonds and their ability to pay it back.

Occupy Wall Street is useless in addressing this slow motion train wreck no matter what tactics they use. OWS believes in socialism and socialism is not capable of calculating a price. Call it what you like, liberalism, socialism, progressivism, or some future flavor of the day, none of them can calculate prices.

What will save us is a reform movement that improves our collective ability to calculate prices and rationalize our behavior to those price signals in as just a way as possible. The left needs an underlying philosophy that is happy to do that. It does not have it.

Both the Tea Party movement and OWS have at least identified one of the problems: crony capitalism that enrich entrenched elites. However, while the Tea Party wants to get rid of the cronyism, OWS wants to keep the cronyism and transfer it to their pet causes, i.e. student loans, while getting rid of capitalism itself.

Nowhere do you see the Obama Administration’s extensive ties with Goldman Sachs discussed, nor does OWS protest public sector unions which have looted the treasuries of states like California or Michigan, bringing them to the brink of economic disaster. Indeed, their timing seems designed less to address real problems, and more to push headlines about Obama Administration scandals like fast and Furious and Solyandra off the front page.

A real grass-roots protest movement wouldn’t be taking marching orders from the White House and its allies.

A number of commenters here have given OWS great credit for civil disobedience, noting that such measures may be or are a fundamental part of our democracy.

I won’t deny that. But I would merely ask to consider the following – will you say the same thing if someone takes the interesting idea up of ‘Occupy Abortion Clinics’? Shutting them down “by any means necessary” to stop the “murders” within? (FYI, I do not consider myself pro-life. I believe each of the 50 states should have the right to allow or ban it as their voters decide. But that is not my discussion today.)

Would you say the same thing if Tea Partiers set out to shut down the government mechanisms of taking and redistributing citizen’s wealth to unions which will then funnel it directly into a political party’s coffers, that will then do the bidding of that union, even to the end of financial catastrophe? When they set out to stop that immoral march to economic cataclysm “by any means necessary”, including massive and repeated violations of law, will you salute their spirited passion, and stand with their rights to do it?

If so, then I give you props for honorably standing by your principles of support for such actions. If not, then it is merely political hackery, and a forthright willingness to achieve by extra-legal means what you cannot by legal means, because far too many of your fellow citizens do not and will not agree with your goals.

Maybe you will support both movements equally. But I have to say, I’ll believe that when I see it.

The OWS movement is a joke, but what is not funny at all is they basic idea was valid. It was just put in the hands of a bunch of wannabee socialist who have no idea how the rest of the country operates. Decrying excessive consumption and spending at all levels, including government social programs, is valid. However, banging on drums until your demands are met is the equivalent of holding your breath until your parents you what you want.
If the OWS crowd had come out with an agenda and a roadmap on how they intended to move forward I would have given the movement some respect. But claiming to be a leaderless collective with no idea what it wanted doomed the movement just as much as the silly squatter parks they created.

You asked me what I think. Well, when I consider that OWS is being backed by people who belong to groups with ideology that have a history of violating human rights (see WWII Germany, Cuba and Soviet Union, to name a few), consider this as a lesson of being careful about who one associates with because I will never, ever be able to find common cause with folks like them.

I couldn’t disagree with you more. It’s a transformative social movement.

(oh, and I’ve brought my son down there a number of times)

Peace

“their message was lost” What message? Collectively they couldn’t agree on a message. Individually, the only message they could articulate was “gimme”.

And then there was the message delivered by their behavior over time, assault and intimidation of vendors that were giving them food when the vendors ran out, lack of hygiene (which has come back around to bite them, lice, ringworm and scabies, anyone?) The drummers disrespect towards the people who live nearby, not to mention their own fellow occupiers. The lost business and damages (nearly a half-million in NYC alone) to the small and medium businesses nearby. At least one case of arson.

And LOLA’s point, above. If having communists as supporters doesn’t bother you, how about the Klu Klux Klan and the Nazis?

I think you should make sock stew… and that the “Occupiers” should go home already.

But look at what they’ve done.

They shut down businesses in Oakland for a day; losing the wages for the workers; but the stores made up the sake tomorrow.

They trashed a Mens’ Warehouse (who was shut down in support of them) and a Whole Foods (who had expressly supported them) losing those workers their wages, and alienating their supporters.

They’ve trashed various other businesses, and a few food carts for not giving them free food.

Basically time and again they’ve forced lower wages, hardship, and suffering on the lower and middle classes; while doing nothing that would in any way affect the upper class (much less the 1%).

So either they’re the worst planners ever to walk the face of the earth; or this is their goal and they’re here to force the 99% to suffer while protecting the 1% from discomfort.

If they have any other goal; how have they done anything that was productive; or at least not counter-productive? I can’t even see an actions they’ve done since they started that could help the 99%, affect the 1%, or even not harm the 99%… is there a plan at some point to perform some action that doesn’t harm the 99% further?

Or is that too much to ask from this “transformative social movement”… that they not constantly engage in counter-productive actions making lives worse for those they claim to be protesting in support of?

Maybe it is… but what does that say about them that they’re not capable of one useful (or at least not harmful) action?

If Tea Partiers attempted to occupy parks for an indefinite period of time in Blue cities run by Liberal mayors, Liberal City Councils, Liberal Community Boards, and represented by Liberal Congressmen, all voted into office by Liberal voters, they would have been forced to evacuate within 48 hours.

All you “Progressives” here who are praising OWS, should keep this in mind. Then again, if a Conservative filmmaker made a full length feature film ala “Fahrenheit 9/11″, that was a 90 minute hit piece on a sitting Democrat President (like Clinton or Obama), released in theatres to coincide with a general election campaign, Liberals would threaten to burn down any theatre that dared to show it, and the mainstream media would cheer them on.

It’s unfortunate that our media depicts just one picture of OWS…I’ve been to Zucotti–multiple times, with my 13 year old son. And I walk past there every day on my way to work. It’s glorious. And what I experienced, each time–was direct democracy. There are there old and young; mothers with small children. Grandmothers and grandfathers. The first thing they set up was a library. The folks that I met were smart, thoughtful, and passionate. There is grave inequality in the united states. That–and their/our coming together–really, from all walks of life *is* the message right now. OWS has *not* had many incidents of destruction–indeed, I think thee only one *was* in Oakland. This movement has had hundreds of actions across the country. The folks I met are committed to non-violent resistance. Indeed, my son participated in a “de-escalation” workshop at Zucotti about a month ago. (when he first asked why I wanted to bring him down there, I told him it was because I wanted him to experience what it means to exercise your first amendment rights) About 4,000 protestors have been arrested –and the force used against them has been pretty brutal –it’s troubling to me that folks are willing to dismiss the entire movement over the act of a few random people.

Faces of OWS…if you want to know what’s going on, then you should go.

http://www.slate.com/slideshows/arts/portraits-of-occupy-wall-street.html#slide_1

I am hearing a lot more mainstream news reporting on income inequality since the protests started. That, in itself, is a huge accomplishment. I felt like Obama got the gist when he said, “If these people had jobs to go to, they wouldn’t be here.”

NY Post, Enough said.

I’m done here

But this is what happens when people feel helpless and that there are no alternatives. Sometimes just getting attention is enough to help start a change. Isn’t that what happened with the tea party people? No, they didn’t camp out, but they rallied and you could also ask, to what end?

http://blogs.babble.com/babble-voices/joane-bamberger-pundit-moms-spin-cycle/2011/10/12/occupy-america-occupy-social-media/

Wow! Did Drudge link to this posting, or what? This comment thread would be a fantastic opportunity to play a game of Fox News Bingo; Socialists! (check) Nazis!(check) George Soros! (check) Rape! Feces! Assault! (check) Get a job, hippie! (check) etc., etc. I’m not sure why any of you are even bothering to put this BS into your own words. Just cut and paste from whatever ridiculous “news” source you use. It would be more honest.

OWS is a fantastic, *real* grassroots movement. Its lack of leadership, dogged practice of direct democracy, and refusal to settle on a a list of demands has sparked a national dialogue. I’d say that is, in itself, a success.

Notice what “Huh?” didn’t bother to do: no attempt to actually dispute any of the listed points. He or she just listed them, threw in a Fox News sneer (now THAT’S original! No cut and paste there!), and then began imitating Marisa’s fulsome praise of the OWS people. Yawn.

Meanwhile, an OWS supporter was threatening to assassinate the governor of South Carolina.

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=34222

Yup, that’s honest and fantastic, all right.

I agree that hanging out in the streets and parks is a waste of time and quite frankly is a nuisance. Nothing they do will change anything. If this movement were for real, they would boycott the organizations that they are crying about.

Overall, the BIGGEST problem with the movement is that they are, as many would call it, drinking the “kool-aid” of misinformation being put out by individuals like Van Jones, a known communist.

I’ve read the postings and written objectives of this movement on their website and I’ve got to tell you, our ancestors would be turning over in their graves to hear how these people want to completely alter society into a communist utopia. If they hadn’t started up with all the communist talk, I might have been ok with them.

In addition, they seem to believe all the lies about corporations not paying their fair share. The thing is, most corporations DO pay their fair share. Take Exxon for example. They paid around 41% in taxes in 2010. At the gas pump, Exxon makes only 2 cents per gallon–the government makes 18 cents per gallon. Who is making the profit? It’s the government. Incidentally, you can look up the financial statements of any publicly traded corp at annualreports.com.

Occupy also seems to be focused on Wall Street, which makes no sense considering that most of the graft and cronyism occurred with the banks and especially Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

There is also a complete disregard for property rights in this country, which is the greatest reason why we have succeeded so well in the world. People seem so focused on how much CEO’s make per year, but the thing is, corporations are owned. They are property. They belong to the people who hold the stock certificates. It does not belong to Joe Blow living in his tent. It doesn’t even belong to a non-stock holding employee. What the shareholders in a corporation do with their money is their business. I wouldn’t expect anyone to interfere with how much I pay the kid who mows my grass or clean my rugs. It is between me and the people I do transactions with. If they don’t like how much they are paid, well, they have the freedom in this country to go forth and seek another job.

Ok, I’ve ranted long enough.